What next?

So, an institution of higher learning accredited by a regional accrediting agency is now to have the credibility of their own standards questioned by another institution of higher learning accredited by a similar regional accrediting agency? WOW! What will they think of next? This is an example of what I learned as I moved my family around the country in response to my government service of “our program is better than theirs — so why should we accept someone else’s as being as good as ours?” Now I work in secondary eduction and the teachers and curriculum directors are arguing that we don’t need to accept some one else’s instruction in AP English or AP Spanish or AP Calculus because the students from that school are obviously unprepared when they arrive at our school during the year as a transfer. The problem is that our staff do not know the same or similar comments are made about our students that transfer to other secondary schools — our students are not prepared to pick up when they start a new school either.With our mobile society today — it is a fact of life that people move — people change — schools do not ALL teach the same material the same way across the United States. The same is said and acknowledged for post-secondary institutions and that is called ACADEMIC FREEDOM — can we think about the possible side effects if this attitude demonstrated by the comments made in this article are carried to the next level? How dare someone else question how I teach my course — that is my academic freedom under fire!

JBJones, at 6:15 am EDT on May 22, 2008

Dual Credit

To paint all dual credit programs with the same brush is unfair. Why doesn’t NYU consider these programs on an individual basis or at least agree to accept credit from programs accredited by NACEP (National Association of Concurrent Enrollment Programs) who demand a solid curriculum and qualified faculty. Any strong academic student who has participated in a dual enrollment program should avoid NYU and their elitist policy. There are plenty other selective colleges that will welcome and award credit to these students.

Mike, at 8:35 am EDT on May 22, 2008

Veterans with credit at many bases

I think this is a lousy move if it becomes a trend to other groups. Veterans like myself that have been defending our country all over the nation and world have credits from many accredited colleges and universities (for me HI, SC, FL, and NY). I thought that is what accreditation was for? As long as the credits fit in the degree program we enroll in ultimately. Does this mean regional accreditation means zilch now?Bad Dog NYU. Bad dog.

Paul Rutter, Adult Education Doctoral Candidate at Penn State, at 9:20 am EDT on May 22, 2008

Show me the evidence that proves “The duel enrollment has contributed to the downgrading of academic rigor and reality. Every serious college should follow the lead of NYU” as well as define for me “serious” college?

KD, at 10:40 am EDT on May 22, 2008

Dual Enrollment

Rigor, academic freedom and finance are real concerns for these course offerings and while many colleges and universities can elect to discount them, the real advantage is for students to seamlessly enter programs of study with foundational academic skills and abilities at the postsecondary level in order to graduate earlier or on time.

Research suggests that the majority of students rarely do graduate in the standard 2-4 year time frame for an associate or baccalaureate degree. It’s a way to save on tuition dollars and high student loan debt at the end of the academic tunnel into the world of work for many college graduates.

Many colleges and secondary schools use these offerings as a way to keep students in school working towards earning bona fide college credits (which the student pays for) and can transfer them into an accepting institution. Many smaller district high schools may not be able to support an AP program/course and may elect to use dual enrollment as a replacement program to fill that market need. AP has also been under fire for many years and quite frankly it places more bearing on the final standardized exam score which may or not be ultimately awarded at the collge they elect or are accepted into anyway. Has anyone had a bad test day or work day in their entire life? Most people have and do, it’s human nature.

Dual enrollment takes into account the whole educational experience a student receives from qualified and approved high school faculty by the college offering the course, not one final exam exit score 0-5. If regional accrediting bodies want to limit or discount them, it should be voted on and univerisally agreed to, but it will probably will never be considered in the short term. However, it all comes down to three overarching principles: (1) academic freedom; (2) rigor; and (3) gaining additional tuition dollars to support college finance.

Finally, whatever each college/university decides to do, it should be clearly communicated to all incoming or perspective students and schools that support dual enrollment that they will not accept these credits. Misleading the student decision to attend that institution should be clearly defined. “Let the buyer beware.”

John Craig, PhD, at 10:50 am EDT on May 22, 2008

Blow to dual enrollment

Do the colleges and universities, like NYU, that are putting the bosh on dual enrollment credit have longitudinal data to demonstrate that students who take English 101 in a dual enrollment course with an authorized instructor are more likely to fail in NYU’s English 201 than a typical NYU freshman who took English 101 with an NYU professor, adjunct, or graduate teaching assistant? Wouldn’t it make sense for a highly selective institution like NYU, or for that matter any university that values intellectual motivation, to *encourage* the practice among high school students of seeking and passing college-level course work? Dual enrollment and early college programs offer an intellectual life-buoy to the vast number of secondary school students who need and deserve an academic challenge when they’re ready for it—which is all too often before the typical completion at age 17 of a conventional high school curriculum. Or might it be that NYU is more concerned that students who earn college credit while in high school will not be obliged to pay for the same course at the far more expensive collegiate credit-hour rate?

Brian Hopewell, at 10:50 am EDT on May 22, 2008

Dual enrollment

Dual enrollment is an excellent vehicle for recruiting high quality students. Use of articulation agreements between P-12 and IHE define the quality — and many of the high school teachers delivering the courses can also serve as adjuncts delivering the same course on campus. Collaboration is the key.

Susan, at 11:05 am EDT on May 22, 2008

A Bit of Clarification

Overall, from NYU’s perspective, this story was right — we are tightening standards with regard to those courses for which we will give credit. However, we were a little disappointed with the way this story was reportedbecause it didn’t really capture the appropriate details or distinctions.

“Dual Enrollment,” to our minds, means courses taught at a college where the student is in class principally with college students, not high school students (for instance, a high school senior has completed all math courses offered by his/her high school and has fulfilled the high school’s math graduation requirements; the student wishes to pursue more complex math coursework and does so by taking a course at the local college in some area of advanced mathematics). We have and will continue to review those requests for credit on a case-by-case basis, evaluating the grade receivedand whether the course has the required rigor to be given college credit.

However, another phenomenon that has developed over the past number of years is “college-level” courses that are taught in high schools to high schoolers, not infrequently by high school teachers who are certified to teach college level courses. Generally speaking, we like the idea that this is happening, because we want students to take challenging courses in high school, and we admire them for doing so (for that reason, it should be understood that the crack that “NYU is not impressed” was the reporter’s language, not something we said or would have said). They receive credit — appropriately — on their high school transcript during the application process. That, however, is separate and distinct from giving COLLEGE CREDITfor the course, which we will not be doing.

We will continue to give credit for the appropriate scores on AP exams, though not simply for taking AP courses. The exam helps us verify the rigor of the course work, which is precisely the challenge we are confronting withthe phenomenon I just described. Likewise the IB.

I am also sending a copy of this posting to the reporter and to the editorof Inside Higher Ed.

— John Beckman, NYU Public Affairs

John Beckman, Public Affairs, at 11:20 am EDT on May 22, 2008

Indeed it’s about rigor

Kudos to NYU (where I attended both graduate school and law school) for its decision on dual enrollment. It should indeed, decisively, be about rigor. It should not be about more money, attracting more applicants, or anytho\ing else that dilutes courses taught at high schools with the dubious, if not bogus, claim to being college-level.

MAT, Chair, Writing Studies Department, at 12:30 pm EDT on May 22, 2008

NYU Downgrades Dual Enrollment

As a former school counselor and Urban District Administrator, the carrot for our students to stay focused and motivated to continue to higher education was the incentive of taking college course on sight or at local community colleges. It gave our students a taste of what to expect in college and to help them be prepared. It seems it’s more amount the financial loss of those colleges not willing to accept other college credit. It’s always been disappointing on why certain colleges acceps credit from even other colleges, especially Historically Black Colleges and Universities.

James B. Wingo, at 1:05 pm EDT on May 22, 2008

Dual Enrollment Teaches Students the Wrong Lessons

I am so pleased to see that a major university has made this decision, albeit for different reasons than I problematize “dual enrollments.” The dual enrollment program reinforces in students a consumer mentality of higher education by teaching them that the academy accepts short-cut methods for earning college credit and prioritizes credit acquisition over learning. Why do we wonder, then, that students view other “short-cutting” methods (e.g., copying and pasting off the internet, copying homework, submitting the same paper in two different classes for credit, and unauthorized collaboration) as viable and acceptable methods for completing college courses? This “double dipping” may offer students short-term benefits (e.g., college access), but NYU’s bold step begs the academy to step-back and contemplate the potential long-term costs of dual-enrollment and other credit-acquisition schemes. How does “dual-enrollment” affect our students’ cognitive, moral/ethical, and social development? What are the psychological and adjustment ramifications for the students who enter college as “better-than-perfect” because they receive extra credit for AP classes? Are there ways to prepare students for college-level education and enhance access WITHOUT teaching them that it is acceptable to double-dip and WITHOUT reinforcing in them the country’s obsession with grades? I would hope so and I hope NYU’s decision stimulates a nation-wide discussion on this issue.

Tricia Bertram Gallant, Academic Integrity Coordinator at University of California, San Diego, at 1:50 pm EDT on May 22, 2008

NYU courses v. tuition

Actually, if we’re talking about undergrad work, as an NYU alum I can say for a fact: NYU students DO NOT PAY PER CREDIT, they pay (or their loans pay) per year — a lump sum of about $34-40k, depending on housing. If they can get away without taking some of the general ed classes, it doesn’t mean a reduction of tuition $$$ for NYU, it merely means that the student has more credits to do something else with — like taking elective courses or putting them toward a minor or double major...

Krista, CUNY, at 2:25 pm EDT on May 22, 2008

WHY Dual Enrollment lacks rigor

Here’s an example of the wave of courses from 9th grade to 12th grade that students are expecting to be able to transfer when they graduate high school:http://www.bayschools.com/bhs/ACT_Now/sample_plan.php

Without adequate quality control measures, registrars are right to be leery of having to accept college credits from doubtful sources such as these. Out-of-field teacher assignments for these classes run as high as 50%, we have found.

Accreditors are failing to acknowledge the problem, and state bureaucrats are mired in turf battles with CCs and local school districts trying to implement a “Statement of Standards” (see name-link below) for more than a year now without making any progress.

Compounding these problems, the regional accrediting association for the South, SACS, has been officially moving away from enforcing faculty standards since 2002, which apply to courses and course credits awarded by community colleges.

It is not without good reason that institutions of NYU’s standing are looking askance at dual enrollment. More should do the same.

Glen S. McGhee, Dir., at Florida Higher Education Accountability Project, at 6:55 pm EDT on May 22, 2008

Get a grip JB

“Yesterday I had five seniors who failed the dual credit course for graduation in my office. Graduation is in two weeks. How do you find a method to assist the students without breaking the rules for credits and jeopardize your accreditation?”

Easy — summer school. Just like for anyone else.

sk, at 9:20 pm EDT on May 22, 2008

I’d like to have a clear answer as to what happens with credit for the IB final exams: will students get it or not?Thank you

Lillian Agapalidou, College Counselor, at 8:10 am EDT on May 23, 2008

more on quality of dual enrollment

Jobs for the Future, a national policy and advocacy organization based in Boston, has worked with a number of states to open dual enrollment to a wider range of students, and, particularly, to recommend dual enrollment as a strategy to introduce students underrepresented in higher education to college expectations and standards. In our new publication, On Ramp to College: A State Policy Maker’s Guide to Dual Enrollment (www.jff.org), we address the issue of quality for the specific circumstance that troubled NYU— college courses being taught in a high school by a high school teacher or adjunct certified by the college providing the credit. We recommend as a minimum the following guidelines: PRINCIPLES FOR ENSURING QUALITY • College courses taught at high schools use the same syllabus, assign comparable work, and give the same examinations as the equivalent courses taught on the postsecondary campus. • The kind and number of college courses offered is limited in order to monitor quality efficiently. • Higher education sets minimum instructor qualifications.We hope that NYU will consider putting in place a process to assess the quality of such courses rather than categorically denying credit for them. For low income young people, the opportunity to take a rigorous, non remedial college course at no cost in high school may make the difference between attending or not gaining a postsecondary credential. Several experimental design research studies are beginning to provide evidence that dual enrollment can promote college going and momentum toward graduation. Dual enrollment can also function to provide feedback to high schools about the alignment of their courses with postsecondary non-remedial course requirements.

While there is a distinct advantage to students taking courses on a college campus with “regular” college students, our experience with dual enrollment and early college high schools suggests that high school teachers and adjuncts can also provide high quality, authentic college experiences.

nancy hoffman, vice president at Jobs for the Future, at 7:15 pm EDT on May 25, 2008

Accreditation provides the measure of rigor and quality

Determining the rigor and quality of concurrent enrollment programs is not a new challenge—indeed it is exactly that issue that led to the creation of the National Alliance of Concurrent Enrollment Partnerships (NACEP) in 1999.

A NACEP-accredited concurrent enrollment program (CEP) can confidently say to students, parents, legislators, and other colleges and universities, that a student enrolled in a CEP course is taking the same course that they would be taking if they were on the sponsoring college campus. It is particularly important to understand that in a NACEP-accredited concurrent enrollment program:

• Students are held to the same standards of achievement as those expected of students in the on-campus sections of the course;

• High school teachers meet the same academic requirements as faculty and instructors at the college; and

• Courses are approved through the approval process used to approve all other courses offered by the post-secondary institution.

We encourage NYU to explore the standards that NACEP-accredited programs must meet. These are posted on the NACEP website at www.nacep.org. If NYU recognizes transfer credits from a particular college they should also recognize credits earned through a CEP sponsored by that college, as long as the CEP is accredited. Accreditation provides the measure of rigor and quality that NYU and other post-secondary institutions seek.

Julie Williams, Chair NACEP Communications Committeeon behalf of the NACEP Board of Directors

Julie Williams, Chair of the Communications Committee at National Alliance of Concurrent Enrollment Partnerships, at 4:25 pm EDT on May 29, 2008

dual enrollment

If a course is dual enrollment it is not taught by a high school teacher, it is a college course taken through either a community college or state college. It is the same as taking the course as any other student enrolled in the particular college.

Anne-Marie Mazur, at 9:00 pm EDT on June 28, 2008

Dual credit is great!

I teach Dual Credit US History on a high school campus, through the local community college. I disagree 100% with NYU on this matter. So, they don’t accept community college credits? Or do they see dual credit as not really being a community college credit? I can tell you from 17 years of college teaching experience, that my HS students do about 10% across the board better , than the 18-30 year olds at the community college campus. NYU will never get my child’s $ or mine.

Randy N., Professor at Lone Star college, at 8:50 pm EDT on July 7, 2008