May 13

Admissions Control (Update)

Last week, the North Carolina attorney general’s office released an advisory letter suggesting that, in light of federal law, the state’s community colleges should return to a former systemwide policy barring students who are undocumented immigrants from college-level courses. The letter said that the earlier ban “would more likely withstand judicial scrutiny” in the absence of either state legislation clarifying the ability of illegal immigrants to enroll or of guidance from the U.S. Department of Homeland Security.

Looking for a job?

See all 312 new postings

Browse all job listings:

Faculty: 2,352
Administrative: 2,117
Executive: 155
FEATURED EMPLOYERS

UPDATE: Regardless, citing the advice of the state attorney general’s office, the North Carolina Community College System announced Tuesday that it would immediately cease admitting illegal immigrants to degree programs, reversing its current policy, issued in November, requiring that all 58 colleges admit undocumented students. The system said it has asked the state attorney general to seek clarification from the federal government.

Outside North Carolina, the focus of the undocumented student debate nationally has been the question of extending in-state tuition rates to illegal immigrants — what Michael A. Olivas, a law professor at the University of Houston and expert in immigration and higher education law, calls “a second-order question.... Even the federal statute that says a state may or may not either grant or withhold resident tuition assumes, logically, that the students may enroll.”

Yet, on occasion, state policymakers have argued otherwise on this first-order issue of admissions.

“We’ve seen this actually come up in other states as well,” said David Hawkins, director of public policy and research at the National Association for College Admission Counseling. “Obviously, states have the ability to set their own admission policy.... Where we think there’s a flaw in the logic is that the state attorneys general are basing their opinions and directives on an interpretation of federal law that just doesn’t exist. There is no federal restriction to admitting an undocumented student to a postsecondary institution. The real restriction is about the awarding of aid.”

Critics of the North Carolina attorney general’s office letter — an office spokeswoman said there would be no further comment beyond the letter — pointed to what they call an overly broad interpretation of the “benefits” that illegal immigrants are restricted from receiving under federal law. The word “benefits” is understood in the North Carolina letter to include public college admissions, whereas others argue it includes only monetary benefits (like welfare payments).

But, beyond that, they also pointed in surprise to a ceding of discretion over college admissions decisions to the federal government.

“At some point, if there’s any kind of decision-making principle here that ought to be a tie-breaker, one potential tie-breaker is that states traditionally have control over education,” said Hiroshi Motomura, a law professor at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill who specializes in immigration and citizenship law.

States have attempted to assert control relative to the question of undocumented student admissions periodically, including in 1994 when California passed Proposition 187. That limited illegal immigrants’ access to state services, including college education, but was struck down on the basis that it preempted existing federal law on immigration, said Stephen Yale-Loehr, who teaches immigration law at Cornell University.

In Missouri, House Bill 1463, which would bar illegal immigrants from attending public universities in the state, passed the House of Representatives in March with 112 in favor and 39 against, and was sent to the State Senate. “We’re accountable to the people of this state to spend their tax dollars primarily to educate Missouri students and those lawfully present. We need to focus on Missouri families trying to educate their children,” State Rep. Jerry Nolte, a Republican, said then in a statement. “While we are obligated to educate children K-12 regardless of legal status, there is no requirement to provide postsecondary education.”

A House bill in Iowa requiring state college students to submit proof of their legal status — and docking state assistance for colleges that enroll students without proper documentation — was introduced in early March and referred to committee. In Virginia in 2002, the office of the then-attorney general Jerry W. Kilgore issued a memo urging that public colleges exclude undocumented students, while still acknowledging institutional discretion: “There is no federal or state statute that precludes an institution from admitting an applicant known to be an illegal alien,” the memo said. “Moreover, unlike the area of employment law, there is no statute that requires proof of United States citizenship or proof of immigration status in order to apply to a college or university. Thus, as strictly a legal matter, institutions have broad discretion to decide what documentation they will request of applicants, and how they will treat applicants who are not lawfully present in the United States. As a matter of policy, however, the Attorney General is strongly of the view that illegal and undocumented aliens should not be admitted into our public colleges and universities at all, especially when doing so would displace a competing applicant who is an American citizen or otherwise lawfully present here.”

“Unlike Plyler v. Doe,” a 1982 Supreme Court decision affirming the right of illegal immigrants to attend public K-12 schools, “there’s nothing that explicitly says that all people have a right to go to college. Postsecondary education is left up to the states, in determining if they’re going to have public institutions at all and who they’re going to admit,” said Cornell’s Yale-Loehr.

But, from a policy perspective, “I think it’s short-sighted to deny postsecondary education to undocumented students because we need these people,” Yale-Loehr said. “It’s cutting off your nose to spite your face to not allow them to go to college.”

— Elizabeth Redden

Want it on paper? Print this page.
Know someone who’d be interested? Forward this story.
Want to stay informed? Sign up for free daily news e-mail.

Comments

Where’s the beef?

” .. But, from a policy perspective, “I think it’s short-sighted to deny postsecondary education to undocumented students because we need these people ..”

Excuse me — the studies in this area are inconclusive, as usual. Outcomes are all over the place. There is no definitive proof that any such alleged “need” exists.

It is like Bill Gates testifying in the U.S. for more H-1B visas. While tens of thousands of U.S. citizen-programmers are underemployed or unemployed. To quote Judge Judy (a.k.a., former Manhattan chief juvey-judge): “don’t pee on my leg and tell me it is raining.”

Real question: in-state tuition or out-of-state. The latter has less resistance from the legal tax-paying public.

Frank, at 8:20 am EDT on May 13, 2008

Why are we having this discussion

I have to ask that question, why are we having this discussion? I suppose the reasons are numerous, to include the mission of higher education is to educate not legislate. I am not in favor of giving much of anything to undocumented (just a fancy word for illegals) in this country. They are here because they have broken into our country, forget the liberal excuses, and I’m a pretty liberal guy, we have to accept that until people are willing to do the right thing, they have to face consequences for their actions. Now, a lot of the undocumented students are actually children of folks who came here illegally, so they really didn’t have much of a say in their status. So, we are at a crossroads in higher education. Do we or don’t we educated undocumented persons. I say that any educated person, documented or not, deserves the basic right to education and in the long run it does benefit the nation to have educated people. I would say the only thing I have a problem with is those who are undocumented receiving any kind of financial aid, save that for the American students whose parents are struggling just to survive. That’s my stance, take it or leave it.

Martin, at 8:45 am EDT on May 13, 2008

Illegal aliens and US education

No illegal alien has a right to education at any level in the USA. Education is a privilege, and that privilege is reserved for those who are citizens by birth or naturalization, as it is paid for by taxpayers, and illegal aliens do not pay taxes. Any school that offers any education to any illegal alien—regardless of age from 4 to 100—is breaking the law and should be fined and the administration and teachers fired. It is time to put an end to the nonsense that people can flood into the USA and take seats in classrooms because seats are available. It would be better to offer those seats to the poor who are legal citizens and cannot afford the tuition. If an illegal alien is in the USA for an education, that individual must pay for the full cost of the education (not a state or national subsidized cost) and have a Tuition Visa. That is what the law is for. It is time that all illegal aliens, and their families be rounded-up and shipped back to their native lands regardless of age, gender, condition of health or any other criteria.

Dr Arthur Frederick Ide, at 9:15 am EDT on May 13, 2008

Amen Arthur.

Sue G, at 11:50 am EDT on May 13, 2008

Just For The Purpose of Accuracy

Without intending to take sides on this issue, Dr Arthur Frederick Ide’s comment “... and illegal aliens do not pay taxes” and Sue G’s applause are inaccurate and misguided.

Not that the costs of and benefits derived from the presence of illegal aliens balance out, but in 2002 illegal aliens paid $16 billion in taxes to just the federal government and many more billions in state and sales taxes.

http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/fiscalexec.html

Frankly, the presence of illegal aliens is such a complex issue, it will take much, much more than the proclamations of a bunch of half-baked academics to sort things out. To illustrate the complexity of the situation in little more than a trivial sense, I wonder how many jobs in the U.S. would be outsourced to God-knows-where were it not for illegal aliens working here, spending considerable resources here, and sending a relatively meager portion of their incomes “back home” to support their families.

To emphasize the complexity of this issue from yet another perspective, yesterday’s arrest of approximately 650- 750 illegal aliens (80% of the total workforce) at the AgriProcessors plant in Postville, Iowa could (1) undo 20 years of effort by the Rubashkin family to take a defunct meat processing plant and transform it into a going (if less than perfect) concern, (2) have a devastating impact on the local economy, and (3) disrupt up to 60% of the kosher retail meat and 40% of the kosher poultry markets nationally ... not to mention disruption of the sales of a great many retail chains that depend on the Postville plant for their supplies.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/13/us/13immig.html?ref=todayspaper

So, if you think this is just a “send those criminals home and get things back to normal” issue, well think again. If providing educational services to some of these illegal aliens is amongst the most significant issues facing educational processes in the U.S. today, then I, for one, will sleep well tonight.

And if you’re “up to here” with concerns about the U.S. economy – e.g. the significant decline of the value of the dollar and the exponential increase of the national debt — don’t fall for the efforts of the Bush administration to blame its economic incompetence on their failure to control the growth of illegal aliens.

Frizbane Manley, at 3:15 pm EDT on May 13, 2008

In the beginning, Friz ..

What yanked-off many was the rank-absurdity of LEGAL out-of-state residents being charged the fully-costed out-of-state rate (without federal subsidies) — while ILLEGAL/"undocumented” residents were allowed to pay the taxpayer-SUBSIDIZED in-state rate.

So some persons were brought to the U.S. as children, are “innocents,” their plight in this matter is unfair, and the world will end if they don’t get their way.

Well, as JFK once noted, “life is unfair.” Heck, if we’re debating fairness — why do only 56.4% of incoming freshmen graduate within six years? Why are there tens of thousands of under-employed PhDs? Why are freshmen courses the most profitable in academia? Why, after graduation, are so many “college graduates” barely passing employment exams?

Frank, at 3:40 pm EDT on May 13, 2008

Education by the government, for the government

Education is compulsory to age 16 or 18, depending on state laws. No obligation is so universally applied, not even conscription in wartime. Hence Ides, et al., who rather pompously declare education to be a “privilege,” should at least be able to see that there’s something going on with education beyond extending a privilege to citizens.

Governments discovered quite a while ago that universal education was good for the state for at least two reasons: a) School trains and socializes a much more productive workforce, and b) citizenship, including national identity and loyalty, is promoted through the experience of school.

The compulsory aspect of education cannot reach to all levels, because many people either don’t want to or are unable to benefit from higher levels of school. (Not everyone wants, or is able, to earn a Ph.D.) But governments may subsidize institutions of higher education to encourage higher post-highschool enrollment than could occur on a strictly pay-as-you-go basis. And, yes, governments get their money from taxes, so we all pay for it. But the governments subsidize higher education in the general interest (stronger economies, mainly), not from welfare motives.

Dr. Ides’ rant notwithstanding, illegal immigrants *do* pay taxes, and schools that offer education to them are *not* breaking the law, in most states, so Ides is simply wrong to say their “administrators and teachers [should be] fired.”

America’s great economic engine is the result of countless human beings trying to make themselves better off. Good governmental policies aim to ensure order, provide services and public amenities consistent with the wealth of the state, and invest in infrastructure and services (roads and schools, e.g.) conducive to a thriving economy.

Some people need to go back to school and learn to understand what they’re spouting off about.

Rod Bell, Adjunct Professor at College of DuPage, at 3:55 pm EDT on May 13, 2008

Some people?

Some people need to go back to school and learn to understand what they’re spouting off about.

Some people need to get a calculator and review others’ studies on this issue —

http://www.thesocialcontract.com/artman2/publish/tsc_18_2/index.shtml

Some people need to open their minds and their eyes to the authentic problems caused by the flood of illegal immigration. Unmatched in recent history.

Eleanor Roosevelt once said no one should ask someone else to do what they were unwilling to do themselves.

Sympathize with illegal immigrants? Then have 21 live next door. See what it is like. Hint: it will be a challenge.

Frank, at 6:30 pm EDT on May 13, 2008

Point of order: government

Education by the government?

Public education is a tradition in the USA.

Where in the Constitution does it say that educational employees must be government employees? That they cannot be employees of NGOs?

It doesn’t. Funding is one thing. Employment status is another.

L.L., at 4:55 am EDT on May 14, 2008

Plyler is Weak

I think the split court holding in Plyler is extremely weak and stands a good chance even with the current court makeup to get reversed. I’ll add an excellent recent legal analysis of that court ruling so some may better understand how weak it really is:

http://federalistblog.us/2008/03/supreme_fraud_plyler_v_doe.html

Jimmy, at 7:30 am EDT on May 14, 2008

Are we inside higher ed or Joe’s Tavern?

I reviewed the “studies” recommended by Frank and found them unedifying, although I probably shouldn’t have expected competent research and analysis from a source relied upon by one who apparently considers it relevant to challege me to “have 21 [illegal immigrants] live next door.” (Frank, I never asked anyone to “sympathize with illegal immigrants.” I merely pointed out that public education is provided in order to improve the economy and society we all rely upon and live in.)

As for LL’s mysterious “point of order,” what’s your point? This brouhaha is about North Carolina’s legal opinion that federal law may require the state’s community colleges to return to a former systemwide policy barring undocumented immigrants from enrolling. We’re not talking about “Where in the Constitution?” or “employment status” or any other random association this issue seems to excite, LL. I’m just saying: Most governments—including every one of our state governments—provide and require education to age 16 or 18. After that, most states provide higher education through their institutions, and their professors are government employees for the good and simple reason that the employers are state governments.

My thinking is this: As long as we believe, on good evidence, that higher education for competent students is good for our economy, then it makes sense to provide it in our own interests. That’s the whole argument, nothing else.

Rod Bell, Adjunct Professor at College of DuPage, at 5:35 pm EDT on May 14, 2008

SOME PEOPLE ARE ONLY UP IN ARMS ABOUT THIS...

...because, to put it simply, they’re prejudiced. The truth of the matter is that immigrants, like myself, graduate every single year as Valedictorian’s of their High School and STILL have to worry about being able to go to college. STILL, after having busted my ass to make it as number 1, I have to sit there and listen to why I couldn’t go to college.

It shouldn’t BE about who, legalized or not, gets what kind of education; it’s about who DESERVES that education. One of my high school teachers used to joke with me that he ‘would rather trade 3 of those spoiled stoners to keep you here". So when some people say “well, they were brought here by their parents, its unfair, but hey LIFE is unfair” how come they don’t look at the other side of the coin. There’s MILLIONS of born-in-the-USA citizens who are the dregs of society and have no intentions of going to college or to make this country better. So why should they get better educational treatment than the immigrant who graduated ahead of them. Those kids that are throwing the taxpayer’s money away by flunking through high school didn’t have a choice in being born here, and the kids that are being persecuted didn’t have a choice in the matter either.

We need to stop with the “roundin’ em up and kicking em out!” mentality because, guess what, we are here to stay and I guarantee you I will make more of my life and more for this country than many of my high school counterparts that were lucky enough to be born in the USA. This country begun with immigrants and that’s how it will keep flourishing, so lets get rid of that nasty stigma that comes with immigrating people and just embrace each other as ONE country.

Monica Garza, Student at University of Texas, at 10:45 pm EDT on May 15, 2008

International Applicants?

I’m sorry. Perhaps I don’t understand. Why aren’t these applicants just considered international applicants like all other non-citizens? If they are not — then how do we justify having the types of requirements that we do for one set of international students but not for another?

Robert, at 10:40 am EDT on May 16, 2008

Jobs Related to Admissions Control (Update)

or search for jobs directly.

Student Support Advisor
DeVry University

As one of the largest degree-granting higher education systems in North America, DeVry University provides high-quality, ... see job

Admissions/Records Tech I (3/4 — Time)
Maricopa Community College District

Performs a variety of responsible clerical tasks in the preparation of records and correspondence covering registration, ... see job

Admissions Representative
Corinthian Colleges

Everest Institute, a respected member of the Corinthian Colleges’ network of schools, is dedicated to helping students ... see job

Coordinator, Nursing Admissions — 8NV045
Texas Woman’s University

COORDINATOR, NURSING ADMISSIONS: ($2685 per month)-Job Code: 8NV045 Department: Nursing Houston Campus Education: Bachelor’s ... see job

Dir Adm & Fin Aid
University of Pennsylvania

The nation’s first university, Penn is a world-renowned leader in education, research, and innovation. Situated on a ... see job

Associate Director of Financial Aid for Counseling
East Carolina University

East Carolina University, a constituent institution of the University of North Carolina, is a doctoral institution with an ... see job

Prerequisite Evaluator
San Diego Community College District

We are currently accepting applications for Prerequisite Evaluator. A current position exists in Student Services at the ... see job

Admissions and Recruiting Manager
University of Denver

Job Summary: This position is primarily responsible for managing the recruiting, marketing, and ... see job

Director of Financial Aid
Whittier College

Whittier College is a four-year, independent, liberal arts college distinguished by its small size, a nationally recognized ... see job

Managing Associate Law Registrar
Suffolk University

Position Summary: Under the direction of the Law Registrar, this position carries the responsibilities for ... see job

Admissions Control (Update)

Related stories