Don’t get me started

This is just another example why, like so many others in the world today, I dislike organized religion so much. My God teaches tolerance and acceptance, I wonder sometimes just who these folks are worshiping....

Martin, at 7:35 am EDT on April 25, 2008

Wasting Lives...

I remember years ago as an entering graduate student a bright, articulate doctoral student was my peer mentor. He was a devout Christian from the mid-west from a very conservative denomination but was nothing short of brilliant in the classroom and in research. In short, I owe a good deal of my success to his gentle example and he held his own as a Christian scholar in a secular school. But a few years later, when his wife deserted him for another, his denomination informed him that he would not be allowed to teach in any of their denominational schools or speak in their churches. He was considered, I guess, damaged goods. His response: he hung himself. And academics and his church lost what could have been a bright voice. I often wondered what would have happened if his church instead had responded with sympathy, compassion, and acted like.....Christians. Wheaton seems to have a lot to learn.

JFD, Gordon, ‘91

John F. DeFelice, Associate Professor of History at University of Maine at Presque Isle, at 8:20 am EDT on April 25, 2008

He CHOSE to leave

Did none of you read the article? He quit. He wasn’t fired. He CHOSE to leave his wife and he CHOSE to leave his job. Why is that an example of intolerance?

Fact is, if his wife had chose the divorce, his job would not be in question.

Fact is, his marriage vows included “till death do us part.” Do vows/promises mean nothing to you? Is your “freedom” to walk away from a spouse to whom you have made the highest commitment to stay greater than your obligation to keep your word? He made the “deal” with both his wife and the school.

What if it was thievery? And his wife left him and he quit so he would not be fired for stealing... are you still going to say the school has no right to expect moral behavior from its faculty?

Get a grip. Morality is missing in America as proved by the comments posted here.

till death, at 8:55 am EDT on April 25, 2008

I sympathize with Prof. Gramm’s dilemma here. But what strikes me when I read his statement that it did not seem appropriate “to subject your personal life to the judgment of the college administrators” is that he signed on to quite a bit of administrative judgment when he took his job at Wheaton. Wheaton’s policies are no secret—it was only recently that its students were allowed to dance, and as the article mentions it fired a faculty member for becoming a Catholic.

Wheaton publicly and proudly proclaims what it is and what it does, and students and faculty who choose to associate themselves with Wheaton know what they’re getting into.

Dave Stone, at 9:10 am EDT on April 25, 2008

The bottom line is that in conservative Christian academia, Wheaton is one of those schools that sets the standard. I did not go there, but I’m continually impressed with the alums I run across. Going there — as a student or as faculty — is akin to joining the Seals or the Green Berets. At that level, you submit yourself to a certain standard. If you don’t like the standard, head somewhere else.

Jamie, at 9:45 am EDT on April 25, 2008

I agree with “wondering” — exactly how far down the “food chain” does Wheaton’s policy travel? Wondering raises a question no one else considered — is it only employees with receive a paycheck from Wheaton? All with whom Wheaton does business? the americans with disabilities act holds the institution (public or private) responsible not only for providing those services to students and employees, but also ANYONE or any ENTITY with whom the institution does business — I hope all Wheaton’s alums and business partners (from the people who pressure wash the parking lots to the businesses providing food, office supplies, door mats, printing, telephone service, computers, janatorial services, shredding services, ..........) by golly, I hope no employees of ATT are divorced since it probably provides the analog and cell services utilized by students, administrators, faculty.....wouldn’t want the President to be using a cell phone from a company that has divorced employees.....OY VEY — WHAT A NIGHTMARE!!!!

patricia moran, at 10:15 am EDT on April 25, 2008

Divorce

NO ONE gets a divorce because it is easy or the thing to do. I have never ever met anyone who got up one morning and decided it was time for a divorce. And I think almost everyone — certainly religious people — intend that marriage will be forever. Sometimes it just doesn’thappen.

To get a divorce is a long drawn out decision and painful for everyone, even when there is significant fault involved. I believe that the church, in its compassion, has an obligation to be supportive to those going through this process. Yes, we are all expected to live up to Christian ideals, but most of us do not make it a lot of the time. Divorce just happens to be one of the more obvious ways of failing to be all we would like to be. When a person’s community, and for those of us in academia our college is our community, we need support and help in the process, not condemnation for something that has many causes and effects. Some people, with support, are able to stay married, but mostly not. Nothing will probably change the minds of these college officials, and it is a shame. They have such an opportunity to grow in the church rather than be destructive.

Karen Chobot, at 10:25 am EDT on April 25, 2008

Several years ago we had the same situation in our church. Our church board decided the Christian approach was to love and support our pastor. We did lose some members but the overall response, not only from our church but many others,was overwhelming. Unfortunately it has not turned out as we thought. I think the main reason is, the trauma of the divorce left our pastor a broken man. Even with many of the church members picking up the slack and doing many of his ministerial duties,helping with food and housekeeping details, he couldn’t keep up. He couldn’t stay focused. He forgot appointments, overslept a couple of times for church activities and in time exuded a “poor me” attitude that shows up in his sermons and witness. The church has not grown even with a very active board and congregation.Looking back, I feel it may have been better for him and us that he would have moved to a brand new place and made a fresh start with a different job and life. Even giving him 24/7 support could not heal the hurt and void and has taken its toll on all of us. It’s just too difficult to say what is the right or wrong way for the individual and the institution. Just pray and let Christ be your guide. He is our healer.

Emily Moran, at 10:35 am EDT on April 25, 2008

As an ex-communicated catholic (the Church of England, King Henry VIII, and all that), and as a divorced Associate Professor, Wheaton’s attitude hardly seems christian to me. But I suppose it boils down to whose interpretations of christianity we are talking about. It is intelligent teenagers who see the world in black and white. Life is actually an horribly more complex grey-scale; one might expect more from intelligent adults at a place called a “university", especially when they claim it to be “christian". The upshot for the Institution is that this is counter-productive: Would any sound faculty reading this this want to touch Wheaton with a barge-pole ?Lastly, at the personal level, can tell you that divorce is extremely unpleasant. Wheaton has actually, actively, and intentionally inflicted yet more pain on one of its, evidently, formerly highly regarded members. Whose interpretation of christianity encourages that ?

Anthony Frost, at 12:25 pm EDT on April 25, 2008

Wheaton College

I’m a graduate of Wheaton College, and I believe that they are doing the right thing. They expect professors and instructors to set a good Christian example for their students. They aren’t condemning Dr. Gramm’s soul, they are showing disapproval of his decision to divorce. Given the problems brought about by family breakdown in our society, I wish more people were held to this standard.

Bill, at 12:25 pm EDT on April 25, 2008

Let’s all admit; we have no idea as to the facts of this situation yet we’re more than willing to pass judgement on Wheaton and organized religion. Sounds to me like we could all try practicing our own advise. I’ve always found interesting that those who profess to be nonjudgemental are some of the most judgemental people I know.

John, at 12:40 pm EDT on April 25, 2008

From An Elder In The Church Of What’s Happening Now

Oh my ... all of this whimpering and whining. Thank “God” for “till death,” the only voice of reason in this pathetic line-up of neo-elitists who seem to know better than the decision-makers at Wheaton how the decision-makers at Wheaton should make decisions. I imagine that the next time I’m in Borders (in Ann Arbor, of course) I will run into this lot of commentators browsing through the Self-Help section. Whew!

In any event, I have two comments.

First, I am an elder in The Church of What’s Happening Now, and, from that perspective, must respond to Jeff’s “Let he who is without sin ...”

There is not a single member of our Christian denomination who is sinful, so don’t get too close to us when we’re standing on the edge of a rock field. The trick, of course, is defining sin in just the right way, and, given our clever definitions and unwavering faith, we are indeed without sin.

Second, even though we are devout Christians, it is not clear to most of us that “Christ” ever existed as a real human person (see ...

http://jesuspuzzle.org/)

We don’t care ... we are willing to believe whatever we want to believe on the basis of our knowledge of the evolution of human superstition and, of course, by virtue of our faith. It’s all a matter of faith, isn’t it? ... faith that Jesus lived ... that his mother was a virgin. that the Holy Ghost slipped around and inseminated her when she wasn’t looking ... that there is not one god but three different manifestations, and the Almighty assumes whatever form suits circumstances and His purposes ... that one manifestation was a person (although the proof of that is very weak indeed) whose purpose was to excel at accomplishing low probability challenges, even on at least one occasion making a complete recovery from being dead ... and the most impressive of all, that everyone who doubts any of what we believe will suffer a most horrible death and be subject to the most excruciatingly painful existence throughout eternity (and that’s a lot longer than a trillion trillion years).

No objections please ... we’re not trying to justify any of that. We believe because we believe ... because we want to believe ... because it gives comfort to our lives and meaning to our existence ... because we understand and embrace the concept of faith.

If the Church of What’s Happening Now had a truly spectacular liberal arts college somewhere in the Mid-west, we would offer Professor Gramm a faculty position. You see, to us divorce is not a sin ... nether is abortion ... nor homosexuality ... nor stem-cell research ... nor spending the Sabbath trout fishing on Mills River ... nor taking “God’s” name in vain ... nor a little hanky-panky with your neighbor’s husband ... etc. We classify plagiarism as stealing (the ideas of others), so we even tolerate a little theft. You see, with faith and some thoughtful (and mostly harmless) definitions all things are possible to those who love the “Lord.”

In truth – and I don’t mean to trivialize this situation – it strikes me that the only questionable decision in this essentially inconsequential affair was Professor Gramm’s decision twenty years ago to teach on the faculty of Wheaton College. What was he thinking?

Frizbane Manley, at 1:20 pm EDT on April 25, 2008

Sad Place

Wheaton is such a sad school. It has bright people trying to make sense out of the science of creationism and also trying to adhere to the rule of “Biblical” law rather than demonstrate the love that Jesus taught. It is so hard to think up rationalizations to justify all this tortured thinking.

Les, at 4:55 pm EDT on April 25, 2008

The commenters who criticize Wheaton for failing to care for this man in his time of need miss the mark.

It is appropriate both for an institution (Wheaton) to remove someone who has sought a divorce from his spouse (and has not provided biblical grounds) from a position of leadership and for the church (which is not the same as Wheaton College) to love and care for this person.

Janie, at 5:00 am EDT on April 26, 2008

As a doctoral student on the verge of completing qualifying exams and beginning my dissertation...while deliberating a potential divorce...I am stunned to read this story and many of the comments.

I was always “one of those” who couldn’t understand how people- especially those with children — could get divorced. “How could they have not known before they had kids. How terrible this will be for their children.”

Sad to say with two kids in tow under the age of 4 I am now looking at my own life wondering, “How did I not know?” But also thankful to my spouse for my wonderful children.

After 17 years with my spouse (9 of them married) how could I not have known? I’ve spent the last year deliberating whether or not to leave a relationship that has been more like a dictatorship than a partnership. In doing so, I’ve beaten myself up because I am a product of divorced parents and I promised myself I would do everything possible to never let that happen to my kids.

So what’s changed? Some say it’s the kids. Others blame it on the doctoral program. And still others say I’ve changed and he hasn’t.

But in all of this as I try to figure out how I can complete my doctoral program, earn a living to support my kids and maintain some sort of existence for myself I sit here stunned. Why? Because after all it’s a job. It’s how we have decided to make a living and support our family. And to think that there are “businesses” out there that would place such restrictions is until now unthinkable.

And, to think that on top of the emotional rollercoaster that I’ve been on for the last year (at least) that I could also be facing the loss of a job and the loss of opportunities for other jobs truly saddens me and dampens my hope of moving into a community that I thought supported one another.

Stunned, at 11:10 pm EDT on April 26, 2008

I am an alumnus of Wheaton College and a former student of Kent Gramm’s. I enrolled in Wheaton in 2003, the year they officially let students dance. Sort of. You still can’t dance unless you are at a “college-sponsored” event. Dance, divorce, the occasional sip of an alcoholic beverage (my sophomore year, the captain of the college crew team was dismissed from his position for drinking NON-ALCOHOLIC BEER): all pure evil. It’s all right there in the Bible, under the book “Things People Can’t Do,” Chapter 6, verses one through 2,330.

Several people have posted that the college administrators are simply “upholding Christian principles” for their staff. Well, Wheaton is upholding principles: that is clear. Wheaton has always had very strong principles. And Wheaton is very consistent with their principles. When I heard the news that Kent Gramm was asked to leave, I felt grief and anger but not shock. Wheaton has gotten rid of favorite professors before (I was also a student to Joshua Hochschild, an excellent teacher of philosophy who was kicked out when he became Catholic). Certainly, by firing Dr. Gramm, Wheaton upholds its principles and value system as an institution.

Do not tell me, however, that those principles and values are necessarily **Christian.** You cannot claim that. Wheaton values and Christian values are not always congruent. In times like this, I think they are rarely congruent.

Of course, there were many things that I loved about Wheaton. Kent Gramm being one of them. Fellow students being another one. The oven-baked granola, another. But administrators such as Stan Jones and Duane Litfin have too long subscribed to a brand of Christianity that points fingers rather than touches, that draws lines between people rather than erasing them, that condemns more than loves.

Sheerah, at 12:15 am EDT on April 28, 2008

Yeah, right...

“From the broader missional perspective, we’re a distinctly religious institution as well as being a thoroughly academic institution...” *giggle*

E. Ponimus, at 9:20 am EDT on April 28, 2008

biblicalDivorce

Really, I don’t remember Jesus telling the women at the well, who had been with several husbands and was currently with a man who was not her husband,that she was forgiven but fired. I think he just told her to go on her way and sin no more. I’m so glad the religious right in todays world are not the final judges. I’ll take God anyday. If the Bible is any indication he/she is much more forgiving than most all of us!

g. finnegan, at 12:35 am EDT on April 29, 2008

Your “tolerant” God sure doesn’t seem tolerant of Wheaton College.

Julia Ryan, at 3:40 pm EDT on April 29, 2008

Some may disagree with what the college is doing in regard to Pro. Gramm. Some have commented that the college is not showing the Christian spirit.

However, a close reading of the Bible indicates that the church and by extention this school has the authority to enforce discipline on its members.

Our society has gotten to the point that applying discipline to a person is thought to be equal to hating a person.

The college is merely applying the rules that have been in place for decades; rules that Dr. Gramm were aware of and agreed to.

Gus Williamson, Lab Manager at Lyon College, at 10:40 am EDT on May 1, 2008

Mal 2:16

Malachi 2:16 is more to the point: “‘I hate divorce,’ says the Lord God of Israel.” Apparently Wheaton takes that seriously.

www.letnoman.com

EdR, at 10:30 am EDT on May 2, 2008

Setting the institution up as judge

Of course you all have the right to set and administer your standards. But man, am I glad I have no connection with you other than that you’re part of the horrible picture of Christianity that I have to try to distance myself from in identifying myself with Jesus. I’m not ever ashamed of Jesus, but I am usually ashamed of the institutional religion associated with his name. By this will all know we are Jesus’ disciples, that we love one another....not that we judge one another.

DVG, at 12:25 pm EDT on July 15, 2008