If you are going to shape a data form for Asian-Americans with that much specificity then why not have the same level of specificity for people of African, European, and Latin descent (to name but a few cultural markers)?

The label “African” contains, literally, thousands of ethnicities; Europe has hundreds; Latin countries as well.

Why not have detailed questions related to class, to changes in family circumstance, to every darn identifying trope imaginable?!

If race is a construction, then why do we keep constructing in ways that disfavor the person who is being labeled.

I mean, just ask the person an open-ended question as to how they wish to be identified.

I mean, the most sensible thing to do would be to give students—and everyone—a blank page with only one question and let the person answer it on the entire front and the entire back in any way they choose:

BEYOND YOUR NAME HOW DO YOU IDENTIFY YOURSELF?

Invisible, at 9:35 am EST on November 20, 2007

Retribalization

I am amazed at the return of tribalism with a vengeance. Why are the so-called demographic data important, and what are they used for? In each of the countries of Asia there are other divisions and subdivisions of ethnic and linguistic categories. So, how far does one go to identify the basic tribe?

Isn’t it time to do away with all demographic categories and consider human beings as human beings? See no race, hear no race, speak no race and the obsession with race will disappear.

Unheard, at 11:00 am EST on November 20, 2007

What’s at issue

It seems to me, from the description of what they’re trying to achieve, that they could (and should) dispense with the ethnic categories and ask two other questions: generation in US, parents/grandparents level of education.

Jonathan Dresner, at 2:05 pm EST on November 20, 2007

Backdoor Affirmative Discrimination

Jonathan,

Your proposal seems to make sense at first blush, but UC are NOT trying to simply track recent immigrants or first-in-family university admits.

They (and those who lobbied them to make these changes) are looking for backdoor methods for implementing affirmative discrimination while sidestepping state laws. To do this, they need detailed numbers to show them where to allocate resources.

ACF

ACF, at 2:45 pm EST on November 20, 2007

realitities of ethnicity and race

When I started work at UC Berkeley, from out of state 5 years ago, I thought very much along the lines of “can’t we all just get along and put our differences aside” in many ways. Working with a primarily Asian student body has shown me a lot.

The differences of ethnicity and race of the different Asian countries combined with generational immigration make a HUGE difference on the success levels, socially AND academically, for Asian students. the cultural background combined with financial issues as well as expectations of the family are dramatically different for a Vietnamese American student compared to a Japanese American and so on and so on.

I think this new data will help quantify some of the struggles that different groups have and thus help support students in a better way.

For students with difficult economic circumstances, such as the Appalachian, we do collect data on students overall and there have been studies done for that population at other institutions I’m sure. However, here in California, that is less appropriate considering that over 45% of UC Berkeley is “Asian”

John, UC Berkeley, at 10:15 pm EST on November 20, 2007

Here’s a true story

What about assessing the student’s financial situation just like schools always do and providing greater scholarship assistance to students with pronounced financial need—students like I was.

Let me tell you a little true story.

I was a declared independent with absolutely no parental contributions (meaning my “parents” did not and could not contribute a dime).

I got around $15,000 worth of grant aid for my undergraduate degree each year and I took out about $5000 worth of loans (sometimes more, sometimes less) each semester. The rest of my tuition (around $10,000 a year) I paid for on my own out of pocket by WORKING.

I worked a total of 50 hours a week on average, sometimes more, sometimes less, while also studying full-time (and this is no exaggeration).

I set up a payment plan and went in personally to the Controller’s office with a money order each month to pay my damn tuition.

I worked about 30 hours on the graveyard shift 4 days a week in housekeeping at a hotel. I then worked on campus in a hair-net for the food corporation for about 10 hours a week serving, prepping, and making food (and eventually running the entire snack bar). I also had sporadic work-study.

During the winters, springs, and summers I spent weeks at a time on cruise-ships performing (or cleaning) to make a bigger checks because, on top of tuition, I had room and board and basic necessities to address.

When times were even tougher, I went back and forth on the weekends to strip at places like the Show Palace in NYC and the Bijou in Chicago when they were open and showcasing burlesque. I debated with myself a lot about how to make quick money beyond my tuition money for things like winter clothes, shots for traveling on cruiseship jobs, and all sorts of expenses. Burlesque was a way to make $500 a weekend or more.

Talk about sacrifice. I studied on the train, on the bus, on breaks. I never once went to any parties as a college student. I was invisible. Like a shadow. Fellow students saw me working at the snack bar or drawing pictures on my dorm door in the wee hours of the morning to calm down after work. Sacrifice. Erratic. Survival.

My point is this: no one can do it like you can do it on your own. The sacrifice was huge. But nobody ever heard me complaining! I never wanted anything but a greater scholarship.

I could not make straight A’s because my work schedule did not permit it. Every semester was a strategic nightmare: which courses would get more time? Theater and dance courses that required my presence had to be curtailed sometimes so I could sleep during the day.

On top of all this, I also freelanced and wrote reviews off an on. Being an adult is about responsibility. A damn data sheet with questions! Are you KIDDING ME! Why not ask a student this:

- WHAT ARE YOU RESPONSIBLE FOR IN YOUR LIFE?

- WHO DO YOU GIVE BACK TO?

- WHAT ARE YOUR SACRIFICES?

- WHAT ARE YOU GRATEFUL FOR?

The entitlement inherent in some kinds of data collection and racialized thinking amazes me!

During my junior year a dear old acquaintance gave me $2000. I ended up using it for tuition because I literally had a breakdown trying to keep up such a draconian schedule. That money was like a scholarship for me. Emergencies were the worse...when you have no savings, what do you do when something terrible happens (like breaking my leg on a cruiseship job).

But I did all that in FOUR YEARS.

In grad school, I had half-fellowships. So I STILL worked—still at hotels or, in OH, at a gas station on the graveyard shift cleaning black-as-night oil off the ground of the bay every weekend night. And, intermittently, on cruisehips and odd performance jobs to get extra income.

People are most certainly racially oppressed and disadvantaged socio-economically...but how many are willing to clean bowel movement from around the rim of toilets and then, with no sleep, go to class at 8:30 AM?

Instead of collecting ridiculous data with endless and ultimately under-productive questions, simply look at a student’s financial means.

If they are deserving, if they work hard—and I always did!—give them really great scholarships and aid! Realize that straight A’s and perfect test scores aren’t always indicative of a student’s true promise. When you are working—and working class—you make tough decisions that have little to do with being smart.

I EARNED my college education and graduate degrees on levels that few can take away from me. Now THAT is affirmative action! I know full well that if I had a full ride (a full scholarship) I could have gotten more than a 3.5, 6 or 7 some semesters. I am shocked that my GPA was as high as it was!

But, you know what? Even without a full scholarship, even without a DIME from parents, you can battle for a degree and obtain it.

1) So, stop this racializing and award scholarships to the qualified poor who TRULY need it.

2) Give them more of a chance than I had. Award INDIVIDUALS who are willing to make sacrifices.

3) Stop entitling privileged people with merit scholarships when they can pay through their parents!

4) Don’t subtly favor Asians or any group with different data methods.

Invisibler, at 5:25 am EST on November 21, 2007

California takes up South African Aparhteid

I was reminded of a piece I wrote some years ago (http://www.safs.ca/april2003/ignorantversus.html), in which I referred to apartheid in the following paragraph:In addition, however, this sort of social engineering is also ultimately impracticable. Take, for instance, the claims of persons of so called “mixed race", or partial descent, to be included in designated or “affirmed” hiring groups. How will the line be drawn in deciding eligibility among applicants who are not “full blooded” members of a visible minority and or a Native Canadian category? Will we have to contrive South African style formulae to classify people so as to avoid minute examination of each individual’s parentage and descent? It may seem that this would be unnecessary under the employment equity procedures, but one can readily imagine that in a competitive job situation issues of this kind would arise. These decisions become arbitrary, and like all arbitrary decisions, lead to injustice.

Of course trust California (and the leftist social-engineering faculty and administration) to carry things to their ultimate logical conclusion. No wonder California has been called by some “the largest out-patient psychiatric institution in the world".

All the best, John

John Furedy, Emeritus Professor of Psychology at University of Toronto, at 5:30 am EST on November 22, 2007

Vietnamese are Southeast Asians but they are doing extremily well at school. Academically, Vietnamese students are not categoried as “underrepresentative", because they are all over the places at San Jose State Univeristy, UC Davis, UC Irvirne, Cal Furlerton and Community Colleges in Santa Clara and Orange County. However financially, Vietnamese are more low income categoried

When it comes to money. Schools with Hispanic or Black population can apply for a lot of federal and state money for serving the “underrepresentative” minorities. But schools with more “Asian” population can not get any help because they are not “underrepresentative” category. I guest this is why schools try to re-classify the whole mess. It’ all for money, folks

longvong, at 11:50 am EST on November 25, 2007