News, Views and Careers for All of Higher Education
Aug. 21, 2007
As graduate students work their way through courses, dissertations and defenses, many have an ideal goal for the end: a job at a research university. But when would-be graduate students decide which programs to apply to, or which to enroll in, they often base their decisions on a program’s general reputation, or the reputation of the university as a whole. In theory, programs with good reputations would have good job placement records. Maybe not.
The journal PS: Political Science & Politics has just published an analysis that suggests that there is not a direct relationship between the general reputation of a department and its success at placing new Ph.D.’s; some programs far exceed their reputation when it comes to placing new Ph.D.’s while others lag. The analysis may provide new evidence for the “halo effect” in which many experts worry that general (and sometimes outdated) institutional reputations cloud the judgment of those asked to fill out surveys on departmental quality. And while the analysis was prepared about political science, its authors believe the same approach could be used in other fields in the humanities and social sciences, with the method more problematic in other areas because fewer Ph.D. students aspire to academic careers.
Benjamin Schmidt, one of the co-authors and a Ph.D. candidate in history at Princeton University, said he first started thinking about the issue when he was applying to graduate programs. Too many of the available resources were “reputational,” he said, rather than “output” oriented, and for a potential graduate student, the output of people into good jobs is the most important output of all. His co-author is Matthew M. Chingos, a Ph.D. candidate in government at Harvard University. Although Schmidt is not in political science, they focused on that field because of the availability of data.
Their approach was to take the Ph.D.-granting programs and see which ones placed the most new Ph.D. graduates (from 1990-2004) in faculty jobs at Ph.D.-granting programs. Recognizing that not all departments that award Ph.D.’s are alike, their formula gave more weight to those that were more successful at placing more of their students in top departments. Chingos compared the process to the way Google ranks Web pages — where not all links are alike. (Details on the methodology, along with examples, may be found here.) And then they applied a per capita factor on graduate programs, so that departments placing many students just because they were large wouldn’t do as well as small departments where most students were getting great jobs.
That final weighted analysis showed dramatic ups and downs for some institutions (the top 20 is reproduced at the end of this article). The University of Rochester was ranked 11th in the last National Research Council analysis of political science departments, but its per capita record at placing students in top departments is 4th. Other departments significantly exceeding their NRC rankings include Duke University (14th in NRC, but 7th at placing new Ph.D.’s), Northwestern University (22nd in NRC and 9th in placing Ph.D.’s), Michigan State University (26th in NRC and 17th in job placement), and Emory University (36th in NRC and 19th in job placement).
Of course other universities have better reputations than records at placing new Ph.D.’s. Yale University was ranked 3rd by the NRC, but its track record with new Ph.D.’s landed it 12th. Princeton was ranked 7th by NRC, but 13th when it comes to jobs for its new Ph.D.’s. The University of Wisconsin at Madison was ranked 10th by the NRC, but 35th in placing Ph.D.’s. The University of Minnesota’s numbers: 13th vs. 32nd.
Schmidt said of the analysis: “One of the things I found most disappointing about it is that a lot of the programs with very good reputations that attempt to turn out large numbers of Ph.D.’s often tended to not have as good placement rates as their reputations of their faculty or other things might imply.”
Chingos sees several factors at play. While declining to identify institutions, he thinks some programs “have slipped,” but the professors filling out reputational surveys may be basing their views on a department’s status 10 or more years ago. In contrast, the decision about whom to hire is a result of intense scrutiny and reflects the current quality of a department — in attracting talent to a graduate program and preparing students for academic careers. Chingos also said that size appears to be a factor in reputation more than program quality when it comes to placing students in top departments.
“Rochester is a perfect example,” he said, in that it’s not as well regarded by those filling out surveys but bests most of the competition when it comes to producing Ph.D.’s who get tenure-track jobs at top universities. Chingos said that data like this paper could be most helpful to potential graduate students in flagging a university like Rochester as worth considering above better known institutions.
The Ph.D. program at Rochester is small — enrolling only about 8 new students a year, less than half of the number enrolled as new students annually by many top departments. But in the last four years, Rochester has placed new Ph.D.’s in tenure track jobs at Harvard, Michigan State, Princeton, Texas A&M (2), the University of California at Riverside, the University of Minnesota-Twin Cities, the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill, Washington University in St. Louis, Wayne State University, and Yale University (2). The department features the names of those graduates and other placement information on its Web site.
Randall Stone, director of graduate studies and an associate professor in the department, sees several reasons for the department’s success with placement, as a small program. One reason is that there is a focus in terms of philosophy. “Rochester has been known for decades as a program that takes a particular approach to political science, which is very rigorous, very mathematical, emphasizes the decision making by rational agents as being the first cut we take to explain phenomenon,” he said.
But in terms of a philosophy of graduate education that could be applied elsewhere, Stone said that the key was providing more guidance than he thinks is the norm elsewhere. As graduate director, he prepares a letter for each graduate student each year, with details on how to move ahead and identifying deadlines for dealing with problems. The letter is based on a faculty meeting in which the entire department faculty participates “and everyone knows all of the students.” Graduate students also must prepare, in addition to standard Ph.D. requirements, a second-year paper that must meet the test of “contributing to new knowledge,” Stone said.
While this work may not be publishable, it represents the idea of providing “pre-professional experiences” and exposing graduate students early to to “withering criticisms they are going to get” as they advance. In addition, he said, Rochester insists on more instruction in statistical methods and formal theory than is the case in many other programs. “Our students speak a common language,” he said.
Stone, who earned his Ph.D. at Harvard, said that “a number of top programs get very good students, and then don’t pay much attention to them, and the students get lost intellectually.”
Chingos acknowledged that there is a major bias in his analysis: the belief that success means landing a job at another research university. He said that he was not trying to denigrate those who work at community colleges or liberal arts colleges or outside academe — but to reflect the reality that so many entering Ph.D. programs tell themselves that, whatever they read about the job market, they will be the ones to get jobs at graduate departments.
He said that those interested in a broader range of institutions in fact have more options. But one of the things most striking to him in examining the data was that those seeking a job at a Ph.D.-granting institution have relatively few options. The dropoff from top institutions in job placement to other institutions is sharp, he said, and there are many places awarding Ph.D.’s in political science where a new doctoral recipient’s odds of getting a job at a doctoral institution are “essentially zero.”
The following table shows the rankings produced by the study (based on per capita placement in top programs) compared to the NRC rankings, for the top 20 in the new study.
Rankings Based on Placing Political Science Ph.D.’s in Jobs vs. National Research Council Survey
|
University |
Rank in New Survey |
Rank in NRC |
|
Harvard U. |
1 |
1 |
|
Stanford U. |
2 |
5 |
|
U. of Michigan |
3 |
3 |
|
U. of Rochester |
4 |
11 |
|
U. of Chicago |
5 |
6 |
|
U. of California at Berkeley |
6 |
2 |
|
Duke U. |
7 |
14 |
|
U. of California at Los Angeles |
8 |
8 |
|
Northwestern U. |
9 |
22 |
|
U. of California at San Diego |
10 |
9 |
|
Massachusetts Institute of Technology |
11 |
12 |
|
Yale U. |
12 |
3 |
|
Princeton U. |
13 |
7 |
|
Cornell U. |
14 |
15 |
|
Columbia U. |
15 |
16 |
|
Washington U. in St. Louis |
16 |
24 |
|
Michigan State U. |
17 |
26 |
|
Ohio State U. |
18 |
17 |
|
Emory U. |
19 |
36 |
|
U. of North Carolina at Chapel Hill |
20 |
18 |
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There are other types of schools beyond community colleges, R1s, and liberal arts colleges, too, and R1s are not necessarily the “best” places to get jobs. The universe of possibilities is much greater than that suggested in the article, and success more than validation by an R1 institution.
Caracas, at 7:15 am EDT on August 21, 2007
I would say that all measures have it’s limits. But objective measurement has it’s place.
I wonder if anyone applied this to the undergraduates. At Nebraska, the WIA (work investment act) use employment data as one measurement, but the data is not well distributed or debated on. I wonder if there are states that openly publish these data.
Duncan, at 8:45 am EDT on August 21, 2007
Personally, I would agree with Publius insofar as getting a job at a great liberal arts college does seem like it could reasonably be described as a “success.” But the author of the paper DOES make the point that his system is designed to reflect what he sees as being chief among new doctoral students’ dreams... and as a member of that population (at least until two weeks from now, when I start my second year?), I can vouch for the accuracy of his assessment, at least in terms of my own small corner of the Research I-hungry universe.
Regine, Doc stu, at 9:55 am EDT on August 21, 2007
As a polisci grad student at an R-1 institution that got rocked in these rankings, I have to say that it’s interesting that the authors do not acknowledge just how problematic their bias toward employment at R-1 schools over liberal arts schools is. They acknowledge the bias of “the belief that success means landing a job at another research university,” and they claim that they are “not trying to denigrate those who work at community colleges or liberal arts colleges or outside academe — but to reflect the REALITY that so many entering Ph.D. programs tell themselves that, whatever they read about the job market, they will be the ones to get jobs at graduate departments” (emphasis added). However, what is problematic with this defense is that, by calling this situation “the reality,” they naturalize and repeat the trend of departments at corporatizing R-1 schools to emphasize research in their graduate training over teaching, service, and public engagement. Yes, “research” skills is what gets students jobs at “research” universities. But the crucial question is: what kind of reserach are these students doing? One school that jumped very highly in the rankings, The University of Rochester, emphasizes the aquisition of quantitative research methods and rational choice theory in their graduate training. These are research methods that are especially conducive for producing lots of publishable results quickly. The more publications you have, the more likely you are to get a job at an R-1 school. Some of the schools that dropped in the rankings, such as the University of Minnesota, are those that emphasize more qualitative methods and political theory, which often take longer to produce publishable results because they require more rigorous and critical engagement with the world. By privileging job placement in “research” schools, these authors are reinforcing the bias towards the type of methods that are currently legitimated by the status quo as best for “research.”
Eli, PhD Student in political science, at 11:40 am EDT on August 21, 2007
OMG! Research that actually involves the real world and actual outcomes. To paraphrase Ms. Arellano’s supporters: “How dare they?”
All that grand theory for nothing. Unfortunate.
Buzz, at 12:25 pm EDT on August 21, 2007
Having attended one of the R-1 that also got ‘rocked’ in the ratings of actual placement of students. I would say that a lot of the comments made by the authors are reflective of my experience at the R-1 I attended. Too many students admitted, and attention to grad students varied greatly (or none at all) depending on the graces of the faculty members. Very little support on show/helping student do what they need to do through their graduate career in order to get a job.
When I was on the job market and got an interview at another R-1 and decided to decline (because I realized I didn’t want to get a job (have no life) at such an institution), I was told by the faculty advisor to grad students that I should go on the interview anyway, ‘because it will make us look good that someone from our department inteviewed there’.
That’s the advice I got after being in the program for 6 years, and not getting much support before that.
When I left the department I told the Faculty Grad advisor that being on the ‘job market’ meant more than trying to get an R-1 and that the department had a responsiblity to help or inform students that other career options were likely and/or realistic. From what I can tell, I don’t think things have changed there very much.
Former R-1 Grad Student, at 3:35 pm EDT on August 21, 2007
Add Dartmouth College to the list of colleges that does not make the cut of R1 established by this study.
National liberal arts normally recruit from the top graduate programs, and PhD candidates often choose them over middling R1 departments.
Eleazar Wheelock, at 9:05 am EDT on August 23, 2007
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GIGO?
According to the authors’ method, placement at Williams, Swarthmore, Amherst, and dozens and dozens of other prestigious national liberal arts colleges does not count as a “success.”
This curious omission limits the usefulness of the study and may explain some of the ups and downs of their ranking.
Publius, at 5:25 am EDT on August 21, 2007