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Jan. 9, 2007
If departments really wanted to help would-be graduate students find a good place to earn a Ph.D., they would publish a new set of rankings: on the crotchetiness of each faculty member. So said Timothy Burke, an associate professor of history at Swarthmore College, in a discussion of how departments could be more transparent about the experience of graduate students.
Mensch-iness rankings of professors would also be helpful, joked Burke, in his talk last weekend at the annual meeting of the American Historical Association.
While the comments were focused on history departments, many of them would apply to any disciplines, and especially those where a majority enter the academic job market. Burke wasn’t entirely serious about personality rankings, but his point — and one greeted with nods by the graduate students in the audience — was that individual characteristics of professors may be far more important to a graduate student’s success than a department’s stellar reputation or a university’s lavish resources.
Burke and others on the panel noted that graduate departments have evolved over the years, and that it is frequently possible today to find some statistics about job placement rates or even the kinds of positions that recent Ph.D.’s have earned. But speakers at the history meeting suggested a level of detail that is relatively rare in terms of what programs provide both to prospective students and those working toward their doctorates. Burke offered the following as information that should be available for every graduate department:
While no one at the session said that they provided everything Burke would like to see (let alone the crotchetiness ranking), some said that their departments were working to make substantially more information available.
Sophia Rosenfeld, an associate professor and director of graduate studies in history at the University of Virginia, said that her department has placed on its Web site detailed information about each recent Ph.D. recipient. For privacy reasons, the information is password protected (although Virginia will give a password to any prospective student and provided one for Inside Higher Ed to review the site). For each new Ph.D., one can find out the name, subject of dissertation, faculty member who advised dissertation, current employer, nature of job (tenure track, term, etc.), and any relevant factors that relate to a student’s status (geographically constrained search, intentionally off the job market, etc.)
Rosenfeld said the level of detail made the information much more valuable than aggregate data. Any careful reader could see, she noted, that those who end up working on certain topics with certain professors “are almost guaranteed employment” in tenure-track jobs, while those focused on other times and periods have far less certainty.
The information is intended to be both “sobering,” in that some students will not have it easy obtaining the kinds of jobs many want, and “inspiring,” in that some do, she said.
A similar approach — although without the names of Ph.D.’s or their professors — is used by the philosophy department at Princeton University on its Web page.
Honesty shouldn’t end with the moment students are admitted to a graduate program, Burke said. One of the “most painful” things for departments is to tell students “you need to get out of here,” he said.
In theory, students receive feedback through grades on papers or in courses, through comprehensive exams, or other discussions with faculty members. But Burke said that too many departments keep on the “wounded but bleeding” graduate student — who for some combination of reasons isn’t likely to finish a Ph.D. or find the academic job of his or her dreams. He suggested the use of mandatory completion dates (with exceptions for various personal circumstances) to prevent such people from lingering and to help them get out “before the heavy psychic damage.”
Panelists also discussed the extent to which comprehensive exams are a poor reflection of whether graduate students are actually likely to succeed as professors. For example, Burke suggested much more training in graduate school on “everyday business” — how to apply for a grant, how to give a short paper, how to write a syllabus, how to bring scholarly background to public debates. Such information isn’t taken seriously in many a graduate program, yet has much to do with whether people advance in the faculty ranks.
Anthony Grafton, a professor of history at Princeton University, endorsed the idea of giving students more honest feedback, earlier in their doctoral educations. But he warned that this wasn’t always straightforward. He cited examples of graduate students who — at the time of their orals — seemed “pathologically shy,” such that they might never function well in front of a classroom. A few years later, some of these people excel as teachers, he said.
Audience members raised a number of issues. One faculty member noted the role of university lawyers in squelching some of the transparency panel members wanted to see. It can be hard to have an honest conversation with a student if a lawyer must approve the topics to be discussed, this person said.
In conversations after the presentation, graduate students who were present praised just about every idea discussed, several saying that they wished they had known more before enrolling in their current programs. But in a sign that the crotchetiness factor is very much alive in graduate programs, several graduate students approached about being quoted in this article offered variations of: “I work with Professor X. Are you crazy?”
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Not all hangers on are “wounded.” One thing that frosted me as an older grad student (who finished the PhD in four years) was the presence of “elite” hangers on who delayed the last chapter of their disses for a year or three till just the right job came around (with aid, all of them.) I got a job immediately. These folks take funding away from entering grad students.
TBD, at 8:05 am EST on January 9, 2007
The writer echoes the thoughts of many PhD students. For instance, one non-digital evaluation method to determine a department’s PhD production would be to go its university’s library and manually review all the department’s dissertation for those chairing and serving on dissertation committees.
At bottom, though, the dirty little secret is that there is absolutely no incentive for departments to graduate PhDs. Why graduate low-cost labor and revenue-generators? Why be specific about anything? Why not just create another “need for review?”
See Vedder on this —
http://collegeaffordability.blogs...7/01/phd-scandals-more-evidence.html
L.H.H., at 8:21 am EST on January 9, 2007
Hmm, UNC-Chapel Hill had a time limit to degree. The first extension was easy to get, but not subsequent ones. I saw “bleeding” students told “go away; if you happen to write something sometime, bring it back and we’ll see about reinstating you.”
And, as the article says, sometimes you need by-professor statistics. My advisor’s students averaged twice as long as some other advisors’.
Former ABD, at 8:40 am EST on January 9, 2007
“One faculty member noted the role of university lawyers in squelching some of the transparency panel members wanted to see. It can be hard to have an honest conversation with a student if a lawyer must approve the topics to be discussed, this person said.”
I am genuinely curious to know what legal issues this guy was referring to. Moreover, I also wonder what school he teaches at where faculty really listen to counsel’s advice on what not to discuss with students. My guess is that someone offered an interpretation of an interpretation of a memo from in-house counsel, and some administrator decided that meant that faculty couldn’t tell a student how long another student took on his thesis. In my view, this is a ridiculous interpretation of FERPA, but everyone seems to justify all sorts of subterfuge with it, even though it is possible to get prospective guidance from the government on it. So, Princeton’s approach (including helping IHE out) seems to strike a perfect balance.
Maybe I am missing something. What legal issue prevents a school from revealing their PhD-completion rates ?
Larry, at 9:25 am EST on January 9, 2007
” .. What legal issue prevents a school from revealing their PhD-completion rates?”
Wow. Twice in a week, on the side of ol’ Lar. Darn.
IMHO, this is just another example of the “just give us the money and shut up” syndrome that is epidemic in most bureaucracies.
If institutions (80% of which are owned by taxpayers) cannot answer basic questions about their performance, something is either terribly wrong, and/or the bureaucracy just does not want the truth to be known. I think it is both.
With private institutions, the answer is usually easier — just shut off the money. Government-owned ones are a different matter.
B.D., at 11:25 am EST on January 9, 2007
Heavy psychic damage can also be helped by NOT being too strict on completion deadlines. I was a “wounded” student, and after having done nearly nothing for four years, I finally told myself that I did not have to become a professor when I finished. I then managed to work steadily and finish after another four years. I did have to apply for two time extensions, but fortunately they were not too difficult to obtain. I entered academic administration with less psychic damage than if I had nothing to show for my years in grad school, and my degree may eventually be useful.
CC, at 4:55 pm EST on January 9, 2007
CC, Is this a joke? If not, I would argue that heavy “financial damage” could be avoided by extending the due dates for all of my bills, to, say, 2090. Even in the rarified world of academe, people DO expect results, and putting something off is not a result.
BD, Every time you agree with me it gets a little easier.
Larry, at 7:56 pm EST on January 9, 2007
As someone who spent a lot of time looking at history graduate programs this fall, I would fully support a more transparent system. I started the search with the bonus of having many friends in graduate school and working at a university — thus I was fully aware of the different personalities departments often harbor.
Nevertheless ferreting out how professors behave as advisors was a challenge. For better or for worse, things like responses to inquiry emails factored heavily into my impressions. Of course talking to current graduate students was also helpful. Unfortunately direct questions to faculty ("how do you see your role as an advisor? how would you characterize your interactions with your advisees? etc) generally yielded only the blandest of answers. While I understand that few professors want to be responsible for directing prospective students away from their programs, some honesty and reasonable self-reflection would be helpful. Moreover, there is no reason to trap grad students in programs or with advisors who will be counter-productive. By the time a person decides to embark on grad school, s/he has (or should have) a good sense of the environments in which s/he works best.
As a result, faculty should be able to clearly state how long it takes for them to read and respond to drafts, to explain how they guide your students through orals, and to make an argument for why their method (whatever it is — and different people obviously are going to employ different techniques) of training graduate students is good. Presumably (or, rather, hopefully) these are aspects faculty have thought about before. And if they haven’t, they shouldn’t be working with grad students, or any students.
prospective grad student, at 4:05 pm EST on January 10, 2007
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Hmmnnn..
So Professor Burke is suggesting a more qualitative version of the Philosophical Gourmet?
A few notes on time-to-degree statistics: (a) they would need to be broken down by U.S.-international focus because international research requires more time inherently; (b) they would need to be averaged over several years, because outliers in one year will skew the measure; © they would need to be accompanied by a note on changes in the size of the program, because change in size will bias the measure (down for growing programs and up for shrinking programs).
Sherman Dorn, Associate Professor at University of South Florida, at 6:01 am EST on January 9, 2007