chickens coming home to roost

SD, Schools and people get sued because: 1) the law is not clear; and/or 2) they have an obligation to pay and they will not. Schools are getting into trouble because rather than treat their students like hotel guests, they treat them like children – until they decide to evict them. Then they treat them like trespassers.

If a student expresses a deep sadness here, as a legal matter, is the school’s responsibility: nothing. Just like Marriot has no obligation to make sure its guests are bubbly cheerleaders. If, on the other hand, they start to treat them, then they have to follow through.

Unfortunately, some administrators have decided that they can increase their own power by evicting and expelling students “for their own good” without even considering that no real harm has been done to anyone. (For this reason, I have told a few students to never tell anyone that they are depressed, and to always keep their sadness a secret. Most supposedly “confidential” counseling at schools is not confidential, anyway, and “counselors” either don’t understand the law or just make it up as they go along. A student will harm their future career prospects by blabbing about how they feel to anyone but a bartender or girlfriend.)

Finally, if you are going to state “we are not allowed to tell parents” please cite a statute, rather than render a conclusory statement. Thanks.

Larry, at 10:20 am EDT on August 24, 2006

Questions for Larry

Larry states, “For this reason, I have told a few students to never tell anyone that they are depressed, and to always keep their sadness a secret.”

Question Set 1: Are you trained at diagnosing depression and distinguishing it from ordinary sadness? Can you recognize the signs that a student is serious about harming themselves — or others? Do you refer them to a competent physician?

Larry also asserts, “Most supposedly “confidential” counseling at schools is not confidential, anyway, and “counselors” either don’t understand the law or just make it up as they go along.”

Question Set 2: Do you know this to be the case at your institution (as opposed to just “rendering a conclusory statement)? If you do know this to be the case, have you taken concrete steps to correct the situation?

Larry grandly concludes, “A student will harm their future career prospects by blabbing about how they feel to anyone but a bartender or girlfriend.”

Question Set 3: Do you know for a fact that employers access the counseling records at your institution? Do you feel that the possible damage to “future career prospects” is worse than the possible damage to a student’s mental or physical health?

If the answers to any or all of the above questions is “no,” then only one question remains:

ARE YOU INSANE?!?

MediaDoc, Associate Professor at East Carolina Univ., at 12:21 pm EDT on August 24, 2006

No harm done?

Larry your statement that, “Unfortunately, some administrators have decided that they can increase their own power by evicting and expelling students “for their own good” without even considering that no real harm has been done to anyone. (For this reason, I have told a few students to never tell anyone that they are depressed, and to always keep their sadness a secret.” is extremely contradictory to my own experience. In my experience, suicide attempts have a tremendous ripple effect on fellow students, staff, and any others who are involved. Most campuses have polices prohibiting violence including when an individual perpetuates that violence upon themselves.

The subsequent statement, “Finally, if you are going to state “we are not allowed to tell parents” please cite a statute, rather than render a conclusory statement.” Seems to me to indicate that Larry may have understanding of FERPA and students right to privacy.

Regardless, I too am distressed at the “damned if you do and damned if you don’t” mentaility that seems to govern the world of litigation where the finger is always pointing everywhere but at oneself. With that said, I would add a third point to Larry’s reasons schools and people get sued: 3) Individuals refuse or unable to take responsibility for their own actions and use the legal system to exonerate themselves for poor choices and/or participate in the new “legal lottery” system and try to get a payday via a lawsuit.

Michael, at 12:55 pm EDT on August 24, 2006

FERPA

Larry, the section Beth is referring to is 20 USC 1232g(b)(1)(H). That sections specifically carves out an exception allowing the release of educational records to parents of depedent children.

JM, at 3:55 pm EDT on August 24, 2006

Law was clear

Larry wrote, “Schools and people get sued because: 1) the law is not clear ....” However, here the law was clear. The eviction disciminated against a person with a disability and therefore Hunter College violated the Fair Housing Act, The ADA, and the Rehabilitation Act. [I am one of the attorneys for the student in this case].

David Goldfarb, Goldfarb Abrandt Salzman & Kutzin LLP, at 5:05 am EDT on September 3, 2006

People who attempt suicide or commit suicide shouldn’t be discrimnated against. Having suicidal thoughts is a side effect of a mental illness. Just like any another illness people don’t choose to have a mental disease.If someone has suicidal thoughts and express them, they should be helped. No matter who it is.There needs to be support. Suicidal people don’t want to die they want to stop the pain. It’s a cry for help. That’s all they want. Instead of caring about the “reputation of the college” they should care about saving a human life.

Candace, at 8:10 pm EDT on October 22, 2006