Aug. 8, 2005

The Mascot Mess

Florida State’s Seminole logo

By wading into the highly contentious issue of Native American nicknames and mascots for college sports teams on Friday, National Collegiate Athletic Association leaders achieved their stated aim of sending a clear message that they object to such imagery. But the NCAA also created a cacophony of confusion and put the association in the potentially uncomfortable position of judging when Native American references are “hostile” and “abusive” and when they’re not – questions that could take months, and possibly help from the courts, to resolve.

Four years after the NCAA began looking into the subject, its executive committee announced that beginning in February, it would limit participation in its own postseason championships for 18 colleges and universities with Native American mascots, nicknames or other imagery that the association deemed “hostile and abusive.”

The NCAA said that (1) it would no longer let such institutions play host to its national tournaments; (2) colleges already scheduled to sponsor such events would have to eliminate any references to the Indian imagery from the arenas or stadiums; (3) such colleges could not bring mascots, cheerleaders or any other people or paraphernalia that feature Native American imagery to NCAA championships, beginning in 2008; and (4) athletes may not wear uniforms or other gear with “hostile and abusive” references at NCAA tournament events. (The NCAA’s actions don’t directly affect bowl games, which the association does not control, or anything that happens in the regular season.)

NCAA officials, whom critics of Native American mascots had hoped would ban such imagery altogether, said they had tried to strike a middle ground, condemning its use but acknowledging the autonomy and independence of the association’s member colleges. “An institution may adopt whatever mascot it wishes — that’s an institutional matter, and it involves their integrity and autonomy as institutions,” said Walter Harrison, president of the University of Hartford and chairman of the NCAA’s executive committee, its chief governing panel.

“But obviously we find that these hostile or abusive mascots or nicknames are troubling to us,” he added, “and we take these measures that affect NCAA championships, which are within our authority. We’re trying to send a message very strongly.”

Not everyone bought the NCAA’s argument that it was respecting the authority of its members. Some told the NCAA to butt out of its business — and did so in ferocious terms.

Florida State University T. K. Wetherell, who had announced this summer that the Seminole Tribe of Florida had signed off on its Seminole nickname and its use of an Indian’s head logo, called the NCAA’s actions “outrageous and insulting.” “I intend to pursue all legal avenues to ensure that this unacceptable decision is overturned, and that this university will forever be associated with the ‘unconquered’ spirit of the Seminole Tribe of Florida,” Wetherell said in a written statement.

NCAA officials did not respond directly to Florida State’s statement, but in the news conference in which it announced the new policy, Charlotte Westerhaus, an NCAA official, said that branches of the Seminole tribe elsewhere in the country objected to use of tribe’s name. Harrison, speaking hypothetically, also said: “Everyone has recourse through the courts. We think this is a very reasoned and solid approach that governs those things that we control. But we would be prepared to defend that if actions were brought against us.”

Most other officials at the colleges on the NCAA’s “wanted list” expressed a mixture of aggravation and concern, leavened most of all by confusion over what standards the association had used in coming up with its list and how the restrictions might apply should the colleges decide to retain their Indian imagery.

“There are a lot of unanswered questions raised by the NCAA’s conference call this morning and the release it put out this afternoon,” Thomas Hardy, executive director of university relations for the University of Illinois System, said in an interview Friday. Some students, faculty members and others at Illinois’s Urbana-Champaign campus have been pushing the university for nearly 15 years to abandon its Chief Illiniwek mascot, which supporters have fought hard to keep. “We’re going to review what the NCAA has recommended today and will make some determination as to how that impacts our policy.”

Charles E. Kupchella, president of the University of North Dakota, whose Fighting Sioux name and logo have been accused of furthering a racist stereotype, said in an interview that the NCAA had not made clear what it had determined was “offensive” about the university’s imagery or how it had done so.

” ‘Hostile and abusive’ is not defined, and we do not know who says, and by what standard,” Kupchella said. “Our athletes and coaching staff have used the nickname and a logo, designed by an American Indian artist, with great pride and respect.”

Confusion Reigns

In a news conference and subsequent press release announcing the new policy, the NCAA provided little clarity, and in fact may have sowed additional confusion.

Westerhaus, the association’s vice president for diversity and inclusion, said the NCAA had drawn up its list of offending colleges by reviewing self-studies submitted by more than 30 institutions and applying a definition of “hostile and abusive” that it drew from its own policies and from “case law” and other sources.

During the news conference, Myles Brand, the NCAA’s president, suggested that the NCAA could conclude that some institutions were using Native American names in a way that was not abusive or hostile. He noted, for example, that the NCAA had kept the University of North Carolina at Pembroke off the endangered list, despite its Braves nickname and its logo of an Indian brave (with a red-tailed hawk), because more than 20 percent of its students are Native American. He said other colleges had Native American nicknames that were not “being used hostilely or abusively.”

But the news release the NCAA issued later in the day seemed to conflict with that statement by dividing the colleges into two major categories. Eighteen “continue to use Native American imagery or references and are subject to the new policy.” (One other institution, the College of William and Mary, received an extension of time to submit its defense of its Tribe nickname.)

Another 14 have “removed all references to Native American culture or were deemed not to have references to Native American culture as part of their athletics programs” — in other words, nicknames (like Braves or Warriors) that sound like Indian names but either never had or no longer have a link to Native American culture. (For example, the NCAA accepted San Diego State University’s argument that its Aztec nickname and warrior mascot were not linked to any organized tribe in the U.S. or Mexico.) The NCAA’s statement suggests, therefore, that any use of a Native American name or mascot that is linked directly to Indian culture will be deemed “hostile and abusive.”

NCAA officials did not respond to a request Friday to clarify that apparent discrepancy and to further explain the standards they had used to decide which mascots and names were “hostile and abusive.”

That and other issues are likely to be adjudicated through the NCAA’s internal decision making procedures or, if colleges don’t get satisfactory resolutions there, through the courts.

One of the first institutions to have to confront the new policy is the University of North Dakota. Next March, the Western regional portion of the NCAA Division I men’s ice hockey tournament is scheduled to be held in the university’s Ralph Engelstad Arena, which features a large image of the Fighting Sioux logo atop its entrance (plus a statue of Indian on horseback in its plaza).

Kupchella, North Dakota’s president, wondered how the university might have to “reengineer” the arena to satisfy the NCAA. “Are we talking about taping something over? Taking signs off the building? Do you have to grind off the granite” every place the word “Sioux” appears? he wondered.

He and other college officials wrestled with slightly broader questions, too, occasioned by the NCAA’s new policy. Had the NCAA respected its members autonomy, as its officials suggested, or had the association overstepped its bounds?

Kupchella blurted out a laugh, then paused. “The handbook for presidents,” he said, “tells you not to respond to what’s still a hypothetical.”

Others not in the potential line of fire were less reticent. Steve Denson, a member of the Chickasaw Nation who is director of diversity and an adjunct professor at Southern Methodist University’s Cox School of Business, said he believed that the NCAA, with its advocacy, might have done a favor to institutions that have encountered alumni and donor opposition to eliminating Native American mascots. “In some ways the NCAA is creating a favorable political climate for schools to go back to their patrons and say, ‘The NCAA is making us get rid of it,’ ” he said.

But Denson, who said he believes Native American nicknames such as Seminoles and Utes are acceptable when local tribes approve of them, also wondered if the mascot question really warrants the NCAA’s time and energy.

“The majority of American Indians I know say that compared to poverty on reservations and other issues we deal with every day that are challenging to our very existence,” Denson said, “this is a very secondary issue.”

For the following colleges, though, the NCAA’s actions Friday are likely to keep the issue front and center for some time:

Alcorn State University (Braves)
Arkansas State University (Indians)
Bradley University (Braves)
Carthage College (Redmen)
Catawba College (Indians)
Central Michigan University (Chippewas)
Chowan College (Braves)
Florida State University (Seminoles)
Indiana University of Pennsylvania (Indians)
McMurry University (Indians)
Midwestern State University (Indians)
Mississippi College (Choctaws)
Newberry College (Indians)
Southeastern Oklahoma State University (Savages)
University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign (Illini)
University of Louisiana-Monroe (Indians)
University of North Dakota (Fighting Sioux)
University of Utah (Utes)

— Doug Lederman

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Comments

NCAA stupidity

I wonder if this will give the animal rights people a green light to pressure the NCAA to eliminate animal names from teams. Good bye bulldogs, wildcats, panthers, lions, etc., etc.

Hans Gesund, at 7:55 am EDT on August 8, 2005

Mascot Mess

This is a rediculous position being taken by the NCAA. I believe the 18 colleges and universities should look into forming a new athletic association outside of the NCAA.

Dr. Thomas E. Gamble, President at Brevard Community College, at 8:25 am EDT on August 8, 2005

And what of the Greeks?

Trojans, Spartans, etc. Obviously, we may have the roots of ethnic bias here .. or do we not? You decide ..

Homer, at 8:39 am EDT on August 8, 2005

Icon believe it

It ain’t no good injun-icon ‘cept a dead injun-icon.

John Bonnell, at 9:57 am EDT on August 8, 2005

Nicknames hurt

I find such abusive nicknames as the Pirates, Buccaneers, Raiders, and Corsairs to be offensive and disrespectful to my sea-going ancestors who were just trying to make a meagre living off of the imperialistic commercial powers who ravaged our native waters. One would get the impression that all maritime entrepreneurs ran around with knives in their teeth, a patch over their eye, and a parrot on their shoulder. In fact most were peaceful and family-oriented sailors with a deep respect for the sea and a great love of song. Shame on the NCAA for condoning the ongoing oppression and mockery of my people!

huntly, Captain, at 9:58 am EDT on August 8, 2005

NCAA ruling

Not only did forty university presidents and chancellors find the University of Illinois and others unworthy of hosting post-season play, they are urging other institutions not to compete with them... in essence, to shun them. This is an incredible reproach. Wake up Illinois and retire your Little Red Sambo.

Stephen Kaufman, Professor at University of Illinois, at 12:41 pm EDT on August 8, 2005

Could be funny!

If the NCAA were not serious, this could very well be the most amusing topic of the day. Jeez!

How stupid can one organization be?

Luke, at 2:17 pm EDT on August 8, 2005

Is the NCAA soon going to request that the Washington Redskins change their mascot as well? What about the Atlanta Braves? The Chicago Blackhawks? And if we’re really zealous, what about the Montreal Canadiens or the Vancouver Canucks? And one that should really be thought about, the Guilford College Fighting Quakers — completely against the religion’s founding principles. Let’s just control all of sports and change everyone’s mascots to items such as the pickle or the rutabaga, unless that is offensive to someone also. If the mascot is in good taste, such as I know many of the mascots on the “evil list” to be, let them be — make it a school decision. If the school officials can’t stand up to alumni to change their own mascot, don’t make it part of the NCAA’s problems.

Chandra, at 2:17 pm EDT on August 8, 2005

The NCAA should be commended for taking a position those instutions ought to have had the compassion and responsibility to adopt themselves. The mascot issue is not reducible to “comparative racisms"—and it is illogical to argue that “the damage to my ancestors is no more or no less than the damage to yours, so quiet down and let the majority rule when it comes to cultural degradation.” Mascots like Chief Illiniwek and others are caricatures that deface some Native American religous beliefs as well as degrade cultural heritage, and it’s time these institutions addressed the deeply racist politics symbolized in these names and figures.

Jackie McGrath, Assistant Professor at College of DuPage, at 2:29 pm EDT on August 8, 2005

Whittier College Poets

What about the Whittier College Poets? Dragging the imagery of a gentle craft and its sensitive practioners through the mud, literally, of a football field? For shame!

Rich, at 2:47 pm EDT on August 8, 2005

What, only Indians??

I truly find the depictions used by Notre Dame, the “Fighting Irish” offensive. The Belligerant Leprechaun caricature used very offensive.

Jim, at 3:38 pm EDT on August 8, 2005

Why are there always only two sides?

It’s clear that there is no consensus on the relative offensiveness or inoffensive of various team names and mascots, so the claim that some racisms are more offensive than others is pretty quesstionable. We are all equally susceptible to being offended by representations that we feel personally connected to or politically invested in, political histories and power-relations notwithstanding. The same goes for political speech (correct or incorrect) of all kinds. The question is: should others have their own freedom of expression abridged in order to insulate us from individual or collective “offense"? Is it only public institutions that are under scrutiny here, or should all organizations feel compelled to observe these very ambiguous boundaries of acceptability?

Speaking personally, as a Mexican-American, I find nothing offensive about naming a team “The Aztecs” any more than, as a Texan, I’m offended by the “Cowboys” or the “Texans.” In fact, I’d be proud to have my school’s team named after any of these groups. Similarly, the Seminoles or the Illini (though Chief Illiniwek is pushing it!). On the other hand, if you named your team “The Spics,” the “Yokels,” or the “Injuns,” I’d find it deeply offensive, since those names are intended to be derogatory and belittling. What the pro-mascot people need to understand is that some names—like “Redmen,” “Savages,” and “Redskins", etc.—are equally derogatory and belittling, so why not change them? Are your nostalgic memories really going to be that deeply affected? Get a grip.

But what the anti-mascot folks don’t seem to grasp is that not all representations of minority groups are equally offensive. The mere act of applying a demographic symbol or label to a group of atheletes doesn’t belittle the people represented. Often it honors them (as the Florida Seminoles seem to feel), sometimes it flatters them (pirates and brigands have, in fact, gained in reputation), and occasionally its done in playful irony (as with the Fighting Quakers and the Demon Deacons). Finding a handful of people who don’t like these names isn’t hard—but does that a consensus make? Rather than having a bunch of white, middle-class, academics tell me what I should be offended by, I’d prefer to make those judgments myself (I promise, I won’t send my kids to a school with the Cheeto Bandito as its mascot!).

There are far more insidious and serious forms of racism in this country that really ought to take priority over what kind of paint appears on college kids’ faces on Saturday. How about pouring some of this outrage and energy into getting more jobs and health care into the Native American community? Or how about this: invite all those organizations that use Native American symbols to donate a percentage of their profits to Native American causes!

John Martin, at 3:39 pm EDT on August 8, 2005

Mascot Mess

Ah liberals you got a love um. First they want to take all the crosses from public cemeteries now the liberal animal rights people will want to take away the Kansas Jayhawk from my beloved Kansas University. It is bad enough that in Missouri they already offer a bounty for killing Jayhawks. The NCAA should be concerned about that egregious act than mascot names. Dr. Jerry R. Wolfskill

Jerry Wolfskill, Director, Regional Police Academy at Johnson County Community College Overland Park , Kansas, at 4:10 pm EDT on August 8, 2005

Old habits are hard to break. The white man still insists he knows what’s best for the poor, uncivilized Indian— or at least what’s offensive and what’s not. Paternalism is as alive and well as ever.

I’ve never seen an issue more effective at turning seemingly grown adults into whiny infants as Indian nicknames/mascots. This is pretty sad.

Mick, at 5:38 pm EDT on August 9, 2005

Anyone commenting read the article?

So many comments begin with “why not the...” and list another anoying mascot. My question is why not read the article again for your answer. But if you want to be lighthearted, let’s ban ticket scalpers. They’re offensive in name and deed.

William, at 4:22 am EDT on August 10, 2005

The colleges and universities in question may be overlooking some great possibilities.

Consider: the Chirpers, the Barkers, the Squeakers, the Moaners; could these offend anyone?

Then, too, consider: the Dandelions, The Fighting Daisies, The Purple Pansies, the Glorious Chrysanthemums, the Mighty Dogwoods.

Or again: the Ugly Porcupines, the Crawling Spiders, the Sneaky Worms, the Killer Mosquitoes.

Certain oxymorons might also work: the Roaring Hummingbirds, the Fragrant Skunks; the Docile Maniacs.

All it takes is some imagination.

How come NCAA didn’t get on Notre Dame when they mounted the Four Horsemen and the Seven Mules? Surely these must have offended a theologian or an animal advocate here and there.

Robert, at 9:54 am EDT on August 10, 2005

NCAA WRITING RACISM INTO INTER-COLLEGIATE ATHLETICS

The NCAA, in making what they felt to be a “politically correct” move for no other reason other than to simply make a politically correct move, has made themselves out to be more racist than they ever were seen to be before, and basically stated that only caucasian groups of people, such as the Irish, Quakers, Volunteers, and “Ragin’ Cajuns", are allowed to be immortalized by universities as symbols of strength, pride, and honor as their chosen mascots.

How would those of you that agree with this decision condone, for example, San Diego State’s “Aztecs” or Louisiana-Lafayette’s “Ragin’ Cajuns,” yet shun universities like Florida State that choose to pay tribute to the proud Seminole people through their use of the bravery, pride, and strength of the Seminole people as a symbol to rally around and a spirit to embrace and cherish?

How would you respond to the fact that, not only has the Seminole Tribe of Florida given their permission and endoresement of FSU’s use of the Seminole mascot, but they also selflessly offer their services and perspective towards FSU’s use of the Seminole mascot? For example, the attire that FSU’s mascot, “Chief Osceola” wears is handmade by ladies of the Seminole Tribe.

As far as Southeastern Oklahoma State’s “Savages” mascot goes....through research I’ve done, the only accepted definition of “savage” I can find is “one without civilization,” and most connotations i see refer to earlier European tribes...not Native Americans. So it’s apparent to me that, when the term “savage” is mantioned, the NCAA immediately thinks of Native Americans. Racist? I think yes.

The NCAA has said that it’s perfectly fine for universities to pay tribute to the colloquial history and colloquial peoples of their regions...just as long as said colloquial peoples are not Native American. So shame on The University of Illinois, The University of Utah, and Florida State University for paying tribute to the Illini, Ute, and Seminole peoples...but keep up the good work, University of Oklahoma, University of Tennessee, University of Louisiana-Lafayette, University of Pennsylvania, and University of Wyoming, for paying tribute to Sooners, Volunteers, Ragin’ Cajuns, Quakers, and Cowboys.

The NCAA has laid an egg here, and I can’t wait to see it blow up in its face.

Let the NCAA enjoy their little decision for the time being....for years down the road, it will be nothing but a point of ridicule and much laughter, and will only be seen for the joke that it is.

Andy, Student at Texas A&M University, at 1:47 pm EDT on August 10, 2005

Mascot Mess

Let me see if I got this straight—NCAA schools that have team names or mascots related to “native-American” ethnic groups need to change their name/mascot— unless the local tribal leaders certify that they do not find the school’s use of the name or mascot offensive.

1. Is there a NCAA definition of what constitutes “tribal leaders?” a. As most tribal counsels have a number of elected officials, has the NCAA defined a particular sub-set for establishing consent–—a plurality of leaders, or is 100% support by all tribal members necessary? b. As “tribal officials and leaders” change from time to time, is there an anticipated NCAA requirement for schools to maintain tribal consent on or ongoing annual basis?i) If the objection to name usage is made by well meaning individuals (but not blessed by 1/32 native-American heritage) shouldn’t their “feelings” also be actionable in the name of inclusiveness & diversity?

2. There are a host of States, (Utah, No. Dakota, So. Dakota, Kansas, Delaware, etc.), counties, and cities (Pocatello, ID; Seminole Co. Miami Co.; etc.) whose names are derived from native-American tribal names–-will the logical extension of this NCAA policy requiring these schools to adopt new names (id. est.: The University of Utah would be: “The Univ. of that State directly north of Arizona,” The University of Miami would be: “The University at Coral Gables?,” etc.)? a. I don’t understand the logic as to how a school mascot/team name, “Utes,” derived for the Ute Indian tribe’s name, is some how thought to be more offense to the people of the Ute Indian tribe, than the school’s name, “The University of UTAH”... which is also derived from the name of the same Ute Indians?b. By what system of reason can it be concluded that a school team name, “the Indians,” be offensive, but the school name, INDIANA University of Pennsylvania, some how is not offensive? In the same vein, how can a school name like, The University of ILLINOIS be acceptable to the NCAA, but a team name, “The Illini,” be considered offensive?

There appear to be five logic “next steps.” 1) The NCAA can demand that both schools and sponsoring states change their names to something less offensive to the NCAA’s sensibilities; 2) The NCAA could realize just how truly stupid and capricious this particular demand is and withdraw it; 3) The schools and their state/county/city name-sakes can all agree that a massive national name change, eliminating native-American names in the United States, is a worth-while idea; 4) NCAA member universities and colleges can begin reviewing the NCAA charter and discussing the what part of that charter bestowed the NCAA’s with jurisdiction in this issue; or, 5) Schools can start giving serious consideration to the formation an alternative athletic association...maybe a little competition is seldom a bad thing.

Doug Van Duker, at 6:47 pm EDT on August 10, 2005

Still Okay to Offend the Fat

Thank goodness the “Huskies” nickname is still available so we can be “hostile and abusive” to the overweight.

eddy, at 3:36 pm EDT on August 11, 2005

Mascot

The ncaa has completely lost their mind. If your university is not one of the 18 schools listed by the ncaa as hostile — your time will come. Once an organization starts misusing their power — it is very hard to control that need for more and more power. Watch out Miami Hurricanes and Florida Gators — Do you know how many people each year get killed by those horrible hurricanes and mean gators? I find that so so offensive. What about the Rebels of Ole Miss and the Volunteers of Tennessee? Don’t you find them offensive? Fighting for the South — How dare they keep those mascot names? Deamon Deacons — Quackers — How dare they? Fighting Irish and Ragin Caguns — Isn’t it horrible to show the Irish and Caguns in such a horrible light. I can go on and on — Everyone needs to let the ncaa hear from them on this issue. Even if you can’t stand a certain university — keep in mind — you could be NEXT!

Tim, at 4:39 am EDT on August 12, 2005

Cornhusker’s

I grew up on a farm. . and I find the Nebraska Cornhusker Mascot very degrading to farmer’s everywhere. . .

Shawn, Western Illinois, at 12:56 pm EDT on August 12, 2005

NCAA Liberal Whiner’s “Corn"clusion

“Boo” “hoo"..those hypersensitive, multicultualist psychobablers need to be permanently deployed to Iraq or Afghanistan where the real men and women who daily face life’s serious issues are. The bullets, bombings and beheadings just might make them face the fact of how blessed they are to live in the U. S. On second thought, it probably would be a waste of time and effort—the disgusted terrorists might ship them back once they began their infantile whinning about how “unfair” they were being treated. And that would be “unfair” to the rest of us.

J. C. Frady, at 3:27 am EDT on August 15, 2005

PETOT

As president of PETOT (People for the Ethical Treatment of Trees) I find “Brutus” the Buckeye a defamation to all trees. How long will the NCAA permit this travisty? Only mascots from the set of white Chatholic males should be permitted. “Fighting Irish” works.

G. Skidmore, at 10:15 am EDT on August 17, 2005

The Mascot Mess

I find the “Sooners” mascot used by Oklahoma to be offensive and hostile to law abiding citizens everywhere. Sooners were the law breakers who cheated by crossing the boundary before the authorized start of the land grab from the indians who had been forced onto the Oklahoma territory. The NCAA should not be promoting cheating and lawlessness by allowing this nickname.

John, at 4:37 am EDT on August 30, 2005

Mascot Mess

At what point do we stop and look at ourselves and realize that we are a bunch of adults playing the roles of schoolchildren? In reading the arguments of both sides I come to one conclusion: Both sides have a viable reason for their beliefs. Whether one is offended at the nicknames or at those who object to the nicknames, in the end this is a ridiculous argument and something that the NCAA should never have stuck their nose in. If you don’t like a team’s name then you now have a great reason to root against them, but to actually stand for any type of BAN?..

I have a hard time believing that psychologically any team mascot has EVER led to anyone becoming racist toward one group of people or another. I see absolutely nothing implicitly and purposefully derogatory in such names and therefore see no reason for this debate to have ever reached such a level.

There are lots of things in America that offend one group or another... many of them offend me — but I have no desire to OUTLAW everything that offends me. That is a juvenile and ignorant mindset — “If I don’t like it then it shouldn’t be allowed.” Grow up.

James Russell, at 4:40 am EDT on September 23, 2005

Who cares?

Who cares if anyone gets offened by a college mascot. I can’t understand how worked up people get about college mascots and how offened they get. People should be proud that they’re ethnic backgrounds are represented by a high school, college, or a professional sport team. Stop complaining that Florida State is nicknamed the seminoles or the cleveland indians have an indian logo. Just face the fact that none of these teams nicknames are going to change, and none of you are going to get enough support to pass any kind of bill or agreement.

Ryan Rose, Who cares?, at 1:50 pm EDT on October 13, 2005

Come on People

I am offended by the fact uneducated people rant and rave about how insulting indian names are. The American UnCivil Liberties Union has teamed up with the NCAA because they cant win any more real battles. Some indian is offended, yet at home he is watching the Cowboys / Redskins game and cheering, chopping, and dancing around his living room when the Redskins score. The next step from these fools are to eliminate sports period because some hippie is offended and claiming football to be an abusive sport, then baseball, and hockey. Soon we will only be allowed to play a game in which no-one wins so that way someones feelings dont get hurt.

NyKc, University of Toledo, at 10:32 am EDT on October 18, 2005

Redmen

Ok.....Back in the olden days when Carthage College was in Carthage,Illinois.. They Voted on the nickname “Redmen” to go along with the local high school’s nickname “Blueboys” (Which is Illinois College’s Current mascot.) And was in no way related to native americans. Just because there are feathers on the encircled “C” doesn’t mean its indian....they never had a mascot...so people....chill. ANd in response to U of I.. The Cheif...Yesterday, today, FOREVER!

Casey Donelson, Carthage College, at 6:30 pm EST on November 13, 2005

IT’S ABOUT TIME!

I have set back and read your opinions on this mascot issue and I just can not believe what I am reading! From Professors to the Average Joe. How can you compare People to Objects or Things? I am embarrased for you. Just think this is the year 2005-06, and people, no matter how educated they are still can’t see beyond thier nose. Think outside of your box for a change. These are people, human-beings, that are being used as mascots! What more is there to say? I applaude everyone who had apart in these steps to banned Indian Mascots! IT’S ABOUT TIME!

Gina G., at 5:09 pm EST on November 21, 2005

While I find the debate to be somewhat tiresome, I wonder, of those that refuse to consider the possibility that the mascots need to be changed, how many of them have been a victim of stereotyping themselves?

Holly, at 11:01 am EST on January 24, 2006

Study your mascot history!

The true meaning of the term “Mascot” was and is too bring Good Luck to the individuals that comes in contact with such characters. After reseaching this topic for over 4 years and publishing my findings in the book: MASCOTS: The History of Senior / Junior College and University Mascots and Nicknames, Second Ed. (sportsbooksempire.com.) I have asked the NCAA sub-committee “Why are you doing this to yourself? It not in your organizational charter. Where do you draw the line? Look out Banana Slugs, Artichokes and Black Flies you could be next. My historical research points out that most schools nicknames came from the community heritage wanting to be reflexed in a since of PRIDE. Also, newspaper reporters would write statements like “the team covered the players like a swarm of bees!” or “coming off the pitching mound his arms and legs looked like a wild spider". At Georgia Tech, for example, had the school colors before the nickname. Students would come the the football games wearing a YELLOW JACKET with black trim. The students were told to set in the Yellow Jacket section. It fits. The Orangemen (now “Orange") first football uniforms were almost totally the color Orange, which would have one saying “Look at the ORANGMAN.” The same could be said for the St John’s Univ. (NY) “Redmen.” History shows that Red football uniforms got the nickname going. However, some students purchased a cigar store Indian to use as a mascot. I have often thought “What are the people in the Indian movement going to do if they are successful in getting all the names changed?” No cause- No money? Maybe they will join the “Religious Right” in getting “The Devils” out of the college campus. I think the St. Louis College of Pharmacy “Eutectic” need to be on guard. I would highly encourage letting the local ecomonics and history of the community be the driving force on any name change. If, the local folks are not happy with the nickname and don’t support the school sporting events, I’m sure the school’s sport marketing group will come up with a marketing plan to get the folks interest (money) back. The plan being “don’t deny anyone the opportunity to give you money.” I’m surprized that the NCAA (based on passed history) wouldn’t want to get a percentage of the market share of merchandising that is created by the mascot. Take the nickname away — no percentage. The more the nickname is used —"MO’ MOREY.” Read and get an understanding of the history of the nickname and mascot. Become a student of “MASCOTOLOGY". Do your homework and enjoy history. DR. MASCOT

Roy Yarbrough, Director of Sport Management Studies at California Univ. of PA, at 4:55 am EST on February 3, 2006

I believe, being from Iowa and being a devoted Fighting Illini member, that this is absolutely ridiculous to ban any mascot. I do not get why anyone in there right mind would take away something that is so sacred to Illini fans like my family. Chief Illiniwek, The University of Illinois’s mascot, is not a symbol of war. It is a symbol of peace, and it bonds us together. If they take away things like this that bond us together, we might as well take away the Oklahoma Sooners, or the Nebraska Cornhuskers. It really isn’t worth it. If the NCAA will take away what they have they might as well take their name, and their dignity. I don’t believe anything good will come out of banning Indian mascots. This subject makes many true Illini fans mad, because I know many good people who put quite a bit of money to the university to see great things like Chief Illiniwek perform and hope to have future generations see this but will not get the chance. This takes a significant amount of trust out of the NCAA from me. I would like to believe that every faculty member would love to see him come back but I know this is not true. I have seen his costume in person; it shows absolutely, positively no sign of war or violence. I just want to believe that people would care enough to stop it now and have the other mascots be safe before it goes to far.

a concerned fan, Why this is wrong, at 10:26 pm EST on February 28, 2007

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The Mascot Mess

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Comments

NCAA stupidity

Mascot Mess

And what of the Greeks?

Icon believe it

Nicknames hurt

NCAA ruling

Could be funny!

Whittier College Poets

What, only Indians??

Why are there always only two sides?

Mascot Mess

Anyone commenting read the article?

NCAA WRITING RACISM INTO INTER-COLLEGIATE ATHLETICS

Mascot Mess

Still Okay to Offend the Fat

Mascot

Cornhusker’s

NCAA Liberal Whiner’s “Corn"clusion

PETOT

The Mascot Mess

Mascot Mess

Who cares?

Come on People

Redmen

IT’S ABOUT TIME!

Study your mascot history!

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