Brooks School of Photography

I would really appreciate it if you could send me a copy of the letter that the California Bureau of Private Post-Secondary Education sent to the Brooks School of Photography.

Lou Gottlieb

fax 212 883-7072

Louis Gottlieb, at 12:09 pm EDT on July 20, 2005

I am a parent of a brand new student at Brooks. We are very concerned that after 3 years and close to hundred grand in debt, our daughter might not have a legit degree. We also just found out that none of the credits she would earn at Brooks are NOT transferable to Cal or UC schools, nor many private schools.We’re pondering whether to cut our losses and and enroll her in the local JC until she can transfer to a less dysfunctional establishment.

queenie, Worried Parent at Brooks Institute, at 5:20 pm EDT on July 21, 2005

We are also the parents of a brand new student at Brooks and very worried. We were just talking tonight of bringing our child home now before the debt builds. Can they place our child when graduation time comes with a good full time position? Will the income be enough to pay the loans back and living expences? We don’t know the answers to these questions and feel decieved. The disclosure Form given at registration required the students initials stating that “I have not been guaranteed employment” and “I have not been guaranteed I will earn a specific salary or salary range” but we were told most students work in Los Angeles or New York and have been emailed success stories of Brooks students after graduation and their income assuming that was the norm. We are so confused!!!!

Other worried parents, at 11:10 pm EDT on July 22, 2005

You don’t need Brooks

http://www.robgalbraith.com/bins/multi_page.asp?cid=7-6468-7844

A couple of junior college photo classes, a couple of point and shoot digital cameras, and a passport are needed. You don’t need to spend all that money to be a good, or even a great photographer.

Another former Brooks student, at 5:08 am EDT on July 25, 2005

Inflated promises of career possibilities

Brooks has always trotted out a handful of successful graduates as examples of their success. Most of those photographers entered the field when it was much more open. The fact is that the field is saturated. Brooks’ “best and brightest” tend to graduate, go out into the world and then often return to Brooks in the hopes of getting a teaching position. Most of the faculty are Brooks grads. Many are very good photographers, but have to teach because they could not make a living on their photography alone.

Students tend to either drop out because of costs, or they continue because of the fantasy they are sold before they enroll. Once you spend $80,000 you tend to be pretty committed to the fantasy. They tell you that anyone can make it “in the real world” if you work hard, but that is not true. The ones telling you this did not make it.

Another Former Brooks Student, at 10:55 am EDT on July 26, 2005

well i would like to add my voice to the growing list the real decption brooks sells is that there are many positions in the field this is just not the case and they are the very institution that has been the one to saturate the market! teaching in three years what takes some photographers a decade or more to learn through experience is great but the industry is the one to pay the price too many players eager to get in the game have really driven down the market i have been husteling my butt for two years now and have yet to break 20k!!! i moved to detroit to work for automotive photographers and work (freelance) for one of the oldest automotive studios in the US as a 1st assisant but we get undercut every day by people willing to do the job for break even just so they can get the job please forward any more info: jdresch2@comcast.net i would like also to lend my vioce to any leagel proceedings

j, another grad, at 10:43 am EDT on July 27, 2005

We were also led to believe Brookes could deliver

We were led to believe that Brookes could deliver high paying jobs, and that many jobs were available through the school. The price of tuition is high and we will be paying that amount off for the next 30 years...not to mention the high cost of living in Santa Barbara. My daughter has been working part time for a photography studio at $11 per hour. Not really a compensatory amount for an expensive education.

Dan Barnett, Brooks stretches the truth at Brookes, at 8:46 pm EDT on July 28, 2005

Students and parents should really do their homework before investing so much money and time into a school. You have to be naive to think that a graduate of a photography school would be making $50,000-$150,000 right out of school. All you have to do is ask around to find out it just a recruitment scam. It’s a good school, but it very difficult to make a living taking pictures.

mike, at 4:49 am EDT on August 1, 2005

Brooks

how does one apply for the restitution as ordered and a copy of the report?

M Torres, at 2:16 pm EDT on August 9, 2005

Do your homework!!!

Holy smoke...people hear the word restitution and the vultures start to circle. What is wrong with society today? Everyone is out to get something for free. YOU chose to attend Brooks because YOU stated that YOU were passionate about your field of study. The simple fact is that you were not misled, you just don’t know what to do with yourself. You are not competent enough to market yourself and, more than likely, YOU were the one that didn’t take his/her education seriously. YOU expect a handout? Get real!! Get a job!! Brooks Institute delivered exactly what they said they would to me. I wasn’t “lured” into anything. I knew this was what I wanted to do. AND SO DID YOU!! I’m successful because I took it seriously and networked when I was attending, something my Admission person encouraged me to do from the first time I spoke to him.

Bill, at 4:12 am EDT on August 18, 2005

Advice for Parents and Students

I am a photography professor and department chairman at another institution, in another part of the country, but at one time I was offered a teaching position at Brooks, so I feel that I can comment with some clarity here. The institution I’m associated with is one of the best in the country in photograph. But, I won’t share my name, or school, because I’m not writing to garner admissions, but to clarify some issues raised in the posts.

I thought that I would share what I tell prospective students and parents.

I tell them to ignore everything any admissions person at any school in a creative field tells you about job placement. It doesn’t matter if you go to Yale, RISD, Art Center, or your local community college. Success in the arts is based upon three things.

1) Talent & your portfolio 2) Perseverance and hard work.3) Luck

Now, a good school, with good facilities, faculty, and industry connections can help a great deal. It can provide a standard to attain, connections, internships, and networking. It also gives students a chance to grow and mature in a positive environment. And I’ve looked, but I’ve yet to see an ad in the newspapers for: “Wanted, Creative Types. Great benefits, long vacations, no dress or conduct code, and guaranteed love of your work... $50K a year...”

Instead, the best students are driven to succeed, to get their work out there, to take advantage of visiting lecturers, workshops, internships, and take every opportunity to get their work out there, meet with anybody and everybody, and keep knocking on doors.

A life in the arts, no matter if it is in theater, photography, or the fine arts is made by self-discipline, and being completely obsessed with your medium. And.. lastly, you are entering a very, very competitive field.

That is what I tell folks who are thinking of attending my institution, and I also tell them the pros and cons our school, which really is first rate, but also to view the BFA we grant as a license to explore oneself, and the true passions you bring to your life. The chances are pretty good that many of our students will never work formally with photography, but we feel that the skills and insights gained, provide a great foundation for other careers as well, since so much of modern society and business is image and graphics centered. Can you think of a business that hasn’t been affected by digital imaging, or digital technology?

Soooo, whenever I hear the outrageous claims of schools with placement rates, etc.. I just cringe. Because in the arts, it’s not like attending a top ten accounting school, where the top firms are recruiting. In very rare circumstances, like Art Center’s (Pasadena) well known relationship with the automotive industry, there are recruiters, as happens with a few other fields, such as graphic design, illustration, or industrial design, and to some extent animation and multimedia related programs.

But photography has always, for the past 165 years, been an industry of opportunity, favoring the fast on their feet, and the driven. And it can be a wonderful rewarding life, but in my humble opinion, it requires a lot of hard work, and there are no guarantees of any kind. So, if any institution make’s promises of this sort, shame on them, and let the accreditation teams throw the book at them.

One last comment. Accreditation is a big deal, and I’ve never yet heard a high-school counselor understand it. Schools are accredited by different organizations, and the best schools are all pretty much accredited by the same groups. Thus, all the credits at schools that have earned accreditation under the same agency, can accept credits directly, if they want to, and feel that the courses are equivalent. That said, there are still mechanisms in place to transfer credits from schools accredited under a different agency, usually lower. We can accept credits “By Portfolio” which means that we can look at the applicants portfolio, look at their grades from their old institution (no grade under a C will transfer, no matter from where) and grant a significant number of transfer credits. Often this is limited to studio courses, and not to Liberal Arts offerings. So, if you feel panicked about your credits, most schools, if they want to (not always easy to find a decent person in a registrars or admission office...) can find a way to bring over some of those credits, if not the great majority.

I hope this helps someone a bit, and I feel both the pain and anger of the parents, students, and alumni about this.

Photo Teacher, at 4:27 am EDT on August 25, 2005

I agree with Theresa. There should be some control over the cost of higher education. The expenses for Brooks are rediculous. The institution needs to take into account the student’s needs to earn income and make outside work more flexible. It’s really difficult to maintain a job and excell in your courses at the same time. I’m taking some time off to work! So that I’m not a $100k in debt like most of my friends that were just denied their financial aid checks only to be told they’ve reached they’re limit.

The education is good. Has some kinks to be worked out. Digital needs to be integrated sooner, but will. Students needs access to all equipment from the start. This limiting of equipment based on grade level really prevents students growth and education.

Instructors have no regard for the cost of equipment for students, often requiring or advising them to purchase obsurd trinkits that you’ll never use later.

Students need to realize that you’ll never be handed a job, and especially not one for $100! You’d have to be an idiot to belive that.

My biggest complaint is that $60k later. I have an excellent education, but now I can’t take the courses that I want because I haven’t had the required classes or met the requirements (10sessions) etc.

I never went into this program wanting a BA(already had one), but to get expererience and knowledge in photography. For the most part Brooks delivered their promise.

former Brookie, at 5:40 am EDT on October 15, 2005

Ex-Brooks Student

I was a Brooks student a year ago in the film program and I can honestly say that I enjoyed it. BUT it was the experience I enjoyed, not the school. I agree with a lot of ex students about getting out what you put in but thats also true for everything else in life. Yes the staff was talented and experienced, yes the classes were extremely hands on and pain staking, and of course I learned so much there. BUT I think it’s safe to say that $30,000-$50,000 for a year of study could have had better use as a production budget. At least that way I could’ve had a nice long mediocre film instead of a bunch of 3-5 minute assignments. Who really pays that much for a year of trial and error? Don’t get me wrong, a lot of beautiful work comes out of those classes but I sure the same can be done for much cheaper.

Also while I was attending Brooks this development found it’s way to students ears and many encouraged us to brush it off as a rumor. We were constantly reassured that “nothing’s wrong” and “the school is in no danger” by faculty and students. I’m glad I got out when I did considering only 6 of my 40 or 50 credits transfered over (I think out of pity). No bad feelings here just a few peeves because I still have my california memories.

I think if they take care of what they need to and TAKE THE FILM DEPARTMENT OUT OF THE BOONDOCKS, Brooks will be and amazing school and there would be no need to lie, cheat, and steal.

Jennifer Morin (2003-2004), at 4:37 am EDT on October 18, 2005

what’s currently happening? Response

what’s currently happening?

In response to “Worried Mom” a quick look at http://www.hoovers.com/free/co/se...gID=a4190b1b21af5d899fd4240777725f2a or go to www.hoovers.com and do a search for Career Education Corp. and then look under SEC filings will show the numerous law suits active against CEC, including the Brooks law suits. CEC has to list all this information due to the SEC inquiry.

Having worked at Brooks I found this list of letters very interesting. Both sides of the coin are given a fair hearing. The fact that you do not need a degree for this work, the fact that you will be in debt, the fact that it is a very expensive school, the fact that you can make great contacts while there — all good stufff!The problem is not so much Brooks as CEC which owns the school. The admissions staff have sales quotas; if these are not met they lose their jobs or are placed upon probation until they do. CEC monitors the sales numbers on an hourly basis. This intense pressure to reach quotas means that unscrupulous sales people will make statements which are not true, to make the sale, and to keep their job!

Brooks is one of eighty or so schools owned by CEC and it is a for-profit educational corporation. Brooks does not fit their normal school profile but it is treated in the same way as all the other trade schools. It is standard proceedure to increase tuition by ten percent every year, so each price rise is exponential. CEC is solely interested in raising the value of it’s stock, hence the SEC investigations.

The adage ‘Buyer Beware’ is wise counsel before sending your offspring to any college.

Jim, Ex. Admissions Representative at Brooks Institute, at 4:36 am EST on November 14, 2005

I was a former student at Brooks.I cut my losses and left at the end of the session in Aug 05. I do understand that school is what you make of it but I also did my research and had every member in my family take a look at the school to give me their opinion. Based on the information we had as well as what Brooks told us, I chose to go to Brooks. My deciding factor was that I would be able to go to another college of my choice and earn a masters degree. Come to find out that that was not going to be an option for me after graduation. I am mad that I moved to another state and spent so much in loans, just to find out this and move back. I am enrolled at another college but am still trying to find out what I can do with my large Brooks debt. If anyone has any information, it would be much apprieciated. Thank you. uabrat2004@yahoo.com

Sharon Sirvent, at 2:27 pm EST on January 6, 2006

Dodged a bullet?

I attended a “Career Day” presentation this fall at the high school where I teach. The theme that day was media, and there were some public programs, (county occupational-type) who presented very cheesy, student-made clips representing their schools. They looked like bad cable commercials at best. Then the Brooks rep came on and said he really was not there to sell his school; it didn’t need any hype, it was simply the best, as he was sure we already knew. Then he put on a hip, polished, and visually stunning power-point presentation done by Brooks students. I was very impressed. Since he was the last to go on, he had only 5 minutes to talk, so he just told us what was most important about the school. He told us that virtuallly all Brooks grads go into great industry jobs, that alumni are constantly calling the school to employ future grads. Also, he said if any former grad is between jobs, he could give Brooks a call, and they would match him up with one of the many who call looking for people to employ. This is all because of the vigor and excellency of the school. I was seriously thinking of sending my son, a self-styled surf film maker, who is graduating h.s. this year because it sounded like a “sure thing", and he could get a BA in 3 years. The $ was steep, but it did sound worth it!I decided to do a “Brooks” internet search, and I found this discussion. Thanks for the info.

gina, at 5:40 pm EST on January 24, 2006

Make a complaint

If you are angry about their false claims, don’t just get mad, get even! Use the Better Business Bureau to make a formal complaint! http://www.santabarbara.bbb.org/ The more complaints they receive, they better chance somthing will get done!

Juli Milburn, Ms., at 2:10 am EST on March 14, 2006

Career Education Corporation

So this is where you all have been hiding. I agree with Jim, ex Admissions Rep. I also worked in Admissions as well as Career Services and left (twice) due to the extreme pressure put upon the staff to regurgatate the statistics they supply and make the #’s or loose your job. The morale is sooooooo low that the door is always swinging. The people who work at Brooks are so good and dedicated but are forced to comply or loose their jobs. It is a constant battle with management. From the Pres’s mouth when confronted with the atrocities, “don’t let the door hit you in the ass".... The faculty are the best! A fellow colleague put it correctly, “CEC makes good people do bad things".....My Father grew up next door to Ernie Brooks in Santa Barbara and I know for a fact, he would not be pleased with the way CEC has drug the Brooks reputation through the dirt. It’s all about the money now, plain and simple....oh yes, and the stock. I sold mine! To all the grads.... we really believed in you and believed that what management told us was the truth. “Don’t kill the messenger"!

LK, at 12:30 am EDT on June 3, 2006